Good VPS or other solution for outgoing mail server

[Adam W.]

Hi,

I'm running my own mail server for my own domain (chmurka.net) on a
dedicated IP address in RamNode (81.4.124.88). Despite doing everything I
possibly can (I have SPF records, I have OpenDKIM running to add DKIM
headers, I have TLS enabled with a certificate from Let's Encrypt)
sometimes email sent by me ends up in spam folders.

I checked and I'm not in any RBLs (none I know of). Maybe the IP
reputation is bad, because it belongs to a VPS hosting company (even if
it's used exclusively by me for the last seven years and there's been no
spam or abuse coming from it since then).

Do any of you have any suggestions where to check the IP, how to de-list
it, or where to move the SMTP server? Or maybe there's some paid relay
service that I could sign up to, and they will relay my mail?

I need to change only outgoing SMTP to work this way. Incoming mail works
fine (because why wouldn't it...).

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Adam W.
I'm running my own mail server for my own domain (chmurka.net) on a
dedicated IP address in RamNode (81.4.124.88). Despite doing everything I
possibly can (I have SPF records, I have OpenDKIM running to add DKIM
headers, I have TLS enabled with a certificate from Let's Encrypt)
sometimes email sent by me ends up in spam folders.

What ISPs are doing this to your mail? Are they competent well-run ISPs
whose administrators you can contact, or is it just gmail?

Some ISPs use content filters and there is really nothing you can so to
avoid stuff being marked as spam other than to avoid certain patterns in
your text.

Some ISPs will put the filtering data in the headers so that if the final
recipient can send you the original message with all headers included, you
can figure out what filters were set off.
--scott

[Adam W.]

What ISPs are doing this to your mail? Are they competent well-run ISPs
whose administrators you can contact, or is it just gmail?

One example is poczta.fm, but there are many other ISPs. I had a similar
problem with gmail and with Microsoft-handled mail (hotmail, outlook.com).
It's not a problem with a single ISP.

Some ISPs use content filters and there is really nothing you can so to
avoid stuff being marked as spam other than to avoid certain patterns in
your text.

It doesn't seem to be content-related.

Some ISPs will put the filtering data in the headers so that if the final
recipient can send you the original message with all headers included, you
can figure out what filters were set off.

One person told me it was the "IP reputation". I don't know if it's
related, but:

https://www.ipqualityscore.com/ip-reputation-check/lookup/81.4.124.88

https://www.ipqualityscore.com/ip-reputation-check/lookup/176.56.237.216

"IP Reputation Reputation Issues Detected
This IP address has been detected as a proxy connection, which could be
hurting your IP reputation."

"Proxy/VPN Proxy/VPN Detected
This IP address appears to be a low risk proxy connection."

This is strange, because there's no proxy there and never has been. They
probably listed whole range of IPs.

I contacted them, let's see what happens...

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Adam W.

What ISPs are doing this to your mail? Are they competent well-run ISPs
whose administrators you can contact, or is it just gmail?

One example is poczta.fm, but there are many other ISPs. I had a similar
problem with gmail and with Microsoft-handled mail (hotmail, outlook.com).
It's not a problem with a single ISP.

Start out with poczta.fm then, and talk to their postmaster. Give them a
message that was sent and ask what they are doing to flag it as being spam.

Post by Adam W.

Some ISPs use content filters and there is really nothing you can so to
avoid stuff being marked as spam other than to avoid certain patterns in
your text.

It doesn't seem to be content-related.

Okay, that is good.

Post by Adam W.

Some ISPs will put the filtering data in the headers so that if the final
recipient can send you the original message with all headers included, you
can figure out what filters were set off.

One person told me it was the "IP reputation". I don't know if it's
https://www.ipqualityscore.com/ip-reputation-check/lookup/81.4.124.88
https://www.ipqualityscore.com/ip-reputation-check/lookup/176.56.237.216
"IP Reputation Reputation Issues Detected
This IP address has been detected as a proxy connection, which could be
hurting your IP reputation."

There are dozens of different services which claim to describe your
"IP reputation." This is one of them. Is this the one that is your
problem? Nobody can tell. Ask the postmaster at poczta if he is using
any of these services.

You should be able to ask the folks at ipqualityscore.com why your IP
is showing up as being a proxy. It is possible that at one point it was
used by a proxy. It's not dynamic, right?

But whether that will fix your mail problem or not, I have no idea.
What IS the address of your mail server anyway?
--scott

[U.ee]

<snip>

Post by Adam W.
One person told me it was the "IP reputation". I don't know if it's
https://www.ipqualityscore.com/ip-reputation-check/lookup/81.4.124.88
https://www.ipqualityscore.com/ip-reputation-check/lookup/176.56.237.216
"IP Reputation Reputation Issues Detected
This IP address has been detected as a proxy connection, which could be
hurting your IP reputation."
"Proxy/VPN Proxy/VPN Detected
This IP address appears to be a low risk proxy connection."

I never heard about this site, but I tested few small shared
hosting/e-mail provider e-mail gateway IP-s.
Seems like hardcoded complaint, got same "problem" with every small
provider. Bigger, better known service providers don't have that message
though, so they are done little bit homework to make this issue believable.

I suggest mxtoolbox.com (which aggregates several more known blacklists)
and talosintelligence.com for checking IP and domain.
Talos shows neutral and not enough mail traffic for your IP. This is
probably one issue: irregular patterns and not enough daily sent
messages. Microsoft is known to maintain IP reputation and daily limits
related to previous volumes.
Microsoft by the way has "Smart Network Data Service"
(https://sendersupport.olc.protection.outlook.com/snds/), which allows
netblock owner to receive spam complaints and shows statistics per IP.
Though that isn't help you much, if you don't have your own IP addresses.

Bigger picture: all VPS providers are somewhat abused by spammers. Your
best hope is go to with expansive (because spammers prefer cheap) and
zero tolerance to spam provider.
Realistically, get dedicated server from provider, who don't offer VPS.
Another idea: get static IP from your home ISP and preferably business
class service package.
I have over decade experience hosting my personal e-mail server in that
kind "office Internet with static IP" setups (few different ISP-s over
years) and only issue was once to need delist my IP from Spamhaus Policy
Block List (there is self service delisting or whitelisting option).
I had even forwarding service for few accounts. Sometimes spam got
forwarded (slipped through my filter), still no issue with hotmail or
gmail, no blacklisting.


Best regards,
U.ee

[Jack]

Post by Adam W.
Hi,
I'm running my own mail server for my own domain (chmurka.net) on a
dedicated IP address in RamNode (81.4.124.88). Despite doing everything I
possibly can (I have SPF records, I have OpenDKIM running to add DKIM
headers, I have TLS enabled with a certificate from Let's Encrypt)
sometimes email sent by me ends up in spam folders.
I checked and I'm not in any RBLs (none I know of). Maybe the IP
reputation is bad, because it belongs to a VPS hosting company (even if
it's used exclusively by me for the last seven years and there's been no
spam or abuse coming from it since then).
Do any of you have any suggestions where to check the IP, how to de-list
it, or where to move the SMTP server? Or maybe there's some paid relay
service that I could sign up to, and they will relay my mail?
I need to change only outgoing SMTP to work this way. Incoming mail works
fine (because why wouldn't it...).

Before moving to another VPS, I suggest move your dns to CloudFlare
(FREE) and see if it works for you. I have all my domains on CloudFlare
and no problems so far.

Read the docs and if you have any questions post back. I think it is the
best way to manage Domains, Website and Emails.

<https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/developer-platform/email-routing/>

You continue to use the same Registrar as now except that you use
CloudFlare for all the management of your domain(s). Create new emails,
create subdomains etc etc. You can also create create "Catch-All" emails
so that any emails sent to your domain address will still be delivered.
this allows you to create disposable emails easily.

If you are still interested to USE a VPS then you can try Contabo. They
have fixed price plans and you can start with one month to see if it
works after which you can change it to 12 month plan.

<https://contabo.com/en/vps/>

[Adam W.]

Post by Jack
Before moving to another VPS, I suggest move your dns to CloudFlare
(FREE) and see if it works for you. I have all my domains on CloudFlare
and no problems so far.
Read the docs and if you have any questions post back. I think it is the
best way to manage Domains, Website and Emails.
<https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/developer-platform/email-routing/>

Is it possible to use only their mail relay, without moving my domain to
them? How much does it cost?

It would be best for me to keep the incoming SMTP as it is (and of course
DNS and other stuff), and only use their outgoing SMTP relay.

Post by Jack
If you are still interested to USE a VPS then you can try Contabo. They
have fixed price plans and you can start with one month to see if it
works after which you can change it to 12 month plan.
<https://contabo.com/en/vps/>

Seems to be similarly priced to RamNode. Do you have an example IP from
them that I could check the reputation of?

[Jack]

Post by Adam W.
Is it possible to use only their mail relay, without moving my domain to
them? How much does it cost?

Is it possible to use their mail relay ? YES

No need to move your domain. It costs ZERO dollars $$$$$$$$$

Post by Adam W.
It would be best for me to keep the incoming SMTP as it is (and of course
DNS and other stuff), and only use their outgoing SMTP relay.

You use their DNS and other stuff except that you continue paying your
current registrar. They give you a new DNS (in fact two DNS's) which you
need to enter on your Registrar's website. After doing that, all the
management is done on CloudFlare. If you don't like using them, you
simply delete the DNS numbers from your registrar's website and it
becomes back to as before. CloudFlare will inform you that your DNS has
changed just in case somebody has hacked your account. If you ignore
their messages after 3 attempts by them, they simply delete your details
from their website. You don't need to do anything.

If you have a spare domain, why not try it and see how it works. I use
them for everything except the payment for domains is to my Registrar in
the UK. I try to find the cheapest ones without worrying about their
features because CloudFlare is what I like.

There is also Namecheap for the same thing. It is also free.

<https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/536/51/how-do-i-set-my-domain-to-use-namecheaps-freedns-service/>

Post by Adam W.
Seems to be similarly priced to RamNode. Do you have an example IP from
them that I could check the reputation of?

My IP address is: 85.190.246.107. However, if you use CloudFlare then
this is not relevant because the email will appear to come from
CloudFlare rather than your own VPS. Spamming is strictly not allowed by CloudFlare so you have to be very careful.

One thing you have to know is that Google doesn't like people using PHP
mail. I was using php mail on Namecheap hosting and I found GMAIL just
tossed the emails without delivering them. now I only use SMTP and there
are some free SMTP providers for websites or you can use GMAIL or
Outlook.com (Microsoft) by creating a special password for that. that's
another matter and I don't want to complicate the matters here.

Good luck and wish you a very Happy New Year.

[Jack Lemmon]

Post by Adam W.
I'm running my own mail server for my own domain (chmurka.net) on a
dedicated IP address in RamNode (81.4.124.88). Despite doing everything I
possibly can (I have SPF records, I have OpenDKIM running to add DKIM
headers, I have TLS enabled with a certificate from Let's Encrypt)
sometimes email sent by me ends up in spam folders.

I just checked your domain and YOU DON'T HAVE A CERTIFICATE (or you have
but not configured correctly). That could be the first problem. There
might be others but first configure the certificate correctly. Your
record is here:

<https://crt.sh/?q=chmurka.net>

Firefox, Edge and Chrome is flagging that the domain hasn't got a
certificate.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Jack Lemmon

Post by Adam W.
I'm running my own mail server for my own domain (chmurka.net) on a
dedicated IP address in RamNode (81.4.124.88). Despite doing everything I
possibly can (I have SPF records, I have OpenDKIM running to add DKIM
headers, I have TLS enabled with a certificate from Let's Encrypt)
sometimes email sent by me ends up in spam folders.

I just checked your domain and YOU DON'T HAVE A CERTIFICATE (or you have
but not configured correctly). That could be the first problem. There
might be others but first configure the certificate correctly. Your
<https://crt.sh/?q=chmurka.net>
Firefox, Edge and Chrome is flagging that the domain hasn't got a
certificate.

What would that have to do with mail? He might not even have a web server
on the domain, but that shouldn't affect mail filtering.
--scott

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Scott Dorsey
What would that have to do with mail? He might not even have a web
server on the domain, but that shouldn't affect mail filtering.

Not having a (trusted) certificate for inbound email might be a thing.

But I'd expect that to have very little to do with outbound email and
placement of messages the OP sends.

[Adam W.]

Post by Grant Taylor
But I'd expect that to have very little to do with outbound email and
placement of messages the OP sends.

BTW, Grant, did you receive my email?

Subject: news.chmurka.net and de.* and uk.* hierarchies
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 13:01:11

You were in Bcc, because I sent it to all my feeds.

If not, it might be the same problem (and if you have it somewhere in the
spam folder, it would be helpful if I could see the spam-related
headers)...

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Adam W.
BTW, Grant, did you receive my email?

Yes, I did.

Sorry for not responding yet. I've been slow / lackadaisical to respond
to things over the holidays.

Post by Adam W.
You were in Bcc, because I sent it to all my feeds.

ACK

Post by Adam W.
If not, it might be the same problem (and if you have it somewhere in the
spam folder, it would be helpful if I could see the spam-related
headers)...

No, it delivered to my Inbox. I've since files it in my Usenet News
Server folder, unread, for future action.

I'll try to make a point to respond to you in the next day or so.

[Adam W.]

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Adam W.
BTW, Grant, did you receive my email?

Yes, I did.
Sorry for not responding yet. I've been slow / lackadaisical to respond
to things over the holidays.

Sure, no problem. I have de.* and uk.* up and running with other peers, so
it's not a huge priority. I already configured incoming.conf on my side,
but I didn't want to configure newsfeeds without prior agreement.

Post by Grant Taylor
No, it delivered to my Inbox.

That's the most important thing for me now :)

Thanks.

[Adam W.]

Post by Jack Lemmon
I just checked your domain and YOU DON'T HAVE A CERTIFICATE (or you have
but not configured correctly). That could be the first problem. There
might be others but first configure the certificate correctly. Your
<https://crt.sh/?q=chmurka.net>
Firefox, Edge and Chrome is flagging that the domain hasn't got a
certificate.

I do have a certificate, but not on a web server. I'm only talking about
the SMTP server, not about the web. Here's how it works for incoming SMTP.

$ openssl s_client -connect mx.chmurka.net:25 -starttls smtp -quiet
depth=2 C = US, O = Internet Security Research Group, CN = ISRG Root X1
verify return:1
depth=1 C = US, O = Let's Encrypt, CN = R3
verify return:1
depth=0 CN = mx.chmurka.net
verify return:1
250 DSN

[Ivo Gandolfo]

Post by Adam W.
I do have a certificate, but not on a web server. I'm only talking about
the SMTP server, not about the web. Here's how it works for incoming SMTP.
$ openssl s_client -connect mx.chmurka.net:25 -starttls smtp -quiet
depth=2 C = US, O = Internet Security Research Group, CN = ISRG Root X1
verify return:1
depth=1 C = US, O = Let's Encrypt, CN = R3
verify return:1
depth=0 CN = mx.chmurka.net
verify return:1
250 DSN

***@flamingo ~ $ host mx.chmurka.net
mx.chmurka.net has address 81.4.124.88
***@flamingo ~ $ host 81.4.124.88
88.124.4.81.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vps.chmurka.net.
***@flamingo ~ $

A lot complaining if the name on the certificate don't match the reverse
of the ip('s). I suggest to change your certificate or your reverse.


Sincerely

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Ivo Gandolfo
mx.chmurka.net has address 81.4.124.88
88.124.4.81.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vps.chmurka.net.

Okay, now THIS is a major issue. If your rDNS doesn't match up with your
forward DNS, a lot of sites are going to drop email.

Post by Ivo Gandolfo
A lot complaining if the name on the certificate don't match the reverse
of the ip('s). I suggest to change your certificate or your reverse.

This will cause major problems for web services, but the SSL certs on the web
server have nothing to do with email. rDNS does, though.
--scott

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Scott Dorsey
Okay, now THIS is a major issue. If your rDNS doesn't match up with
your forward DNS, a lot of sites are going to drop email.

+1 (for an extremely large value of one)

I advocate for having sending server hello with an FQDN that matches the
name that forward & reverse DNS. -- Many will say that this isn't as
important. I think it shows good intentions. And I believe that
visible good intentions are a Good Thing (TM) when trying to make your
system stand out as a good netizine.

[Adam W.]

Post by Grant Taylor
I advocate for having sending server hello with an FQDN that matches the
name that forward & reverse DNS.

I did it too (I'm not sure which configuration option affects EHLO, maybe
it takes it from smtpd_banner, or maybe from hostname, but I checked that
it sends vps.chmurka.net now). Thanks.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Adam W.
I did it too (I'm not sure which configuration option affects EHLO, maybe
it takes it from smtpd_banner, or maybe from hostname, but I checked that
it sends vps.chmurka.net now). Thanks.

So, why IS it called vps.chmurka.net if it is not a vps? This may also
be causing some alarm bells to go off.
--scott

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Scott Dorsey
So, why IS it called vps.chmurka.net if it is not a vps? This may
also be causing some alarm bells to go off.

I've found that what something is called is of less importance than it
consistently using that name; rDNS, fDNS, HELO/EHLO, etc.

What something is called can start to be a problem if recipients are
trying to do pattern matching to filter out things that are generic
reverse DNS, often found on residential IPs.

Part of the reasoning for this is that it's very difficult to tell with
any modicum of certainty what strings of letters mean. Does "vps" stand
for "virtual private server" or "vital production service" or "VICTORY,
please sir!". This is only exacerbated by multiple languages, regional
influences, and countless other things.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Scott Dorsey
So, why IS it called vps.chmurka.net if it is not a vps? This may
also be causing some alarm bells to go off.

I've found that what something is called is of less importance than it
consistently using that name; rDNS, fDNS, HELO/EHLO, etc.

This is true. But why it is called that?

Post by Grant Taylor
What something is called can start to be a problem if recipients are
trying to do pattern matching to filter out things that are generic
reverse DNS, often found on residential IPs.

Yes, and people will sometimes use that technique on address blocks that it
is not suited for.

If someone is manually looking over addresses they may very well mark it
as a VPS address. Did that happen? Probably not. But why is it called that?
--scott

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Scott Dorsey
But why it is called that?

Why does it matter that the server is called "vps.chmurka.net"?

Post by Scott Dorsey
Yes, and people will sometimes use that technique on address blocks that it
is not suited for.

Yep.

Though, thankfully, those techniques tend to often look for relatively
specific patterns in text;
<number><delimiter><number><delimiter><number><delimiter><number> Where
each <number> and <delimiter> have some defined textual pattern, even if
it's not completely accurate.

Post by Scott Dorsey
But why is it called that?

Why are you so curious why the server is called "vps.chmurka.net"?

If you're going to advocate for changing it, forgo the question and go
to the discussion around changing it and supporting reason therefor.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Grant Taylor
If you're going to advocate for changing it, forgo the question and go
to the discussion around changing it and supporting reason therefor.

I can't tell you if it makes any difference or not without knowing if the
mail clients are thinking you are a VPS or not. But the headers of one of
the messages from the spam folder should tell you a whole lot. Most mail
systems will let you see all the marks against you on the Baysian filters
and how much the ISP is weighting each one. Once you see that, you know
where to concentrate efforts.

But, on the whole, having "vps" in the name is likely to get you marked
as a vps, in the same way having "mail" in the name is likely to get you
marked as a new server or -gw is likely to have you marked off as a gateway
by one of the many "reputation" services out there. Are you marked that
way? From your previous discussion it seems that you may be.
--scott

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Scott Dorsey
But, on the whole, having "vps" in the name is likely to get you marked
as a vps, in the same way having "mail" in the name is likely to get you
marked as a new server or -gw is likely to have you marked off as a gateway
by one of the many "reputation" services out there.

That speaks to purported reputation services doing something I consider
to be very questionable.

Post by Scott Dorsey
Are you marked that way? From your previous discussion it seems that
you may be.

N.B. I'm not the OP.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Scott Dorsey
But, on the whole, having "vps" in the name is likely to get you marked
as a vps, in the same way having "mail" in the name is likely to get you
marked as a new server or -gw is likely to have you marked off as a gateway
by one of the many "reputation" services out there.

That speaks to purported reputation services doing something I consider
to be very questionable.

You bet!

Some of them also use "geographical information" which is even more
questionable.
--scott

[Adam W.]

Post by Scott Dorsey
I can't tell you if it makes any difference or not without knowing if the
mail clients are thinking you are a VPS or not. But the headers of one of
the messages from the spam folder should tell you a whole lot. Most mail
systems will let you see all the marks against you on the Baysian filters
and how much the ISP is weighting each one. Once you see that, you know
where to concentrate efforts.

I hope I'll be able to get them soon (I'll contact poczta.fm).

Curiously, another email sent to another person using poczta.fm (before I
changed the EHLO, revDNS and certificate) arrived to them without any
problem.

I don't have a reason to distrust the person who claims he didn't receive
my email, but I also don't have any particular reason to trust him. He
accused me (on a newsgroup) of not responding to him, I told him when I
did and asked him to check his spam folder, and he never answered back.
So I can't be really sure.

poczta.fm's mail is handled by Interia (a Polish mail provider). I have
another account there (on interia.com) and I never had any problems with
mail not being delivered between it and my main (chmurka) account (I used
it for some testing in the past).

Post by Scott Dorsey
But, on the whole, having "vps" in the name is likely to get you marked
as a vps, in the same way having "mail" in the name is likely to get you
marked as a new server or -gw is likely to have you marked off as a gateway
by one of the many "reputation" services out there.

But this is a VPS. Is this something that should be concealed or avoided
(from the perspective of email deliverability)?

I have another VPS that's called "kvm" (kvm.chmurka.net) and I'm planning
to migrate my SMTP (and other things) there, but I didn't do it yet.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Adam W.

Post by Scott Dorsey
I can't tell you if it makes any difference or not without knowing if the
mail clients are thinking you are a VPS or not. But the headers of one of
the messages from the spam folder should tell you a whole lot. Most mail
systems will let you see all the marks against you on the Baysian filters
and how much the ISP is weighting each one. Once you see that, you know
where to concentrate efforts.

I hope I'll be able to get them soon (I'll contact poczta.fm).

Ask the mail recipient for a copy with the headers.

Post by Adam W.
Curiously, another email sent to another person using poczta.fm (before I
changed the EHLO, revDNS and certificate) arrived to them without any
problem.

Welcome to the new world of Baysian filters. When your messages are right
on the edge, something minor in the subject or body may make the difference
between delivery and rejection.

Post by Adam W.
I don't have a reason to distrust the person who claims he didn't receive
my email, but I also don't have any particular reason to trust him. He
accused me (on a newsgroup) of not responding to him, I told him when I
did and asked him to check his spam folder, and he never answered back.
So I can't be really sure.

So you do not know for sure that it's being dropped into the spam folder.

Post by Adam W.

Post by Scott Dorsey
But, on the whole, having "vps" in the name is likely to get you marked
as a vps, in the same way having "mail" in the name is likely to get you
marked as a new server or -gw is likely to have you marked off as a gateway
by one of the many "reputation" services out there.

But this is a VPS. Is this something that should be concealed or avoided
(from the perspective of email deliverability)?

Many filters will consider that to your disadvantage. How a particular
ISP or user has that set I can't say.
--scott

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Adam W.
But this is a VPS. Is this something that should be concealed or
avoided (from the perspective of email deliverability)?

I don't think so.

People disliking strings in host names is IMHO about like people saying
they dislike someone with a "C" in the other person's name. Arbitrary
and likely to have negative repercussions.

[Randolf Richardson 張文道]

On 1 Jan 2024 18:13:41 -0000

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Grant Taylor
If you're going to advocate for changing it, forgo the question and go
to the discussion around changing it and supporting reason therefor.

[snip]

Post by Scott Dorsey
But, on the whole, having "vps" in the name is likely to get you marked
as a vps, in the same way having "mail" in the name is likely to get you
marked as a new server or -gw is likely to have you marked off as a gateway
by one of the many "reputation" services out there. Are you marked that
way? From your previous discussion it seems that you may be.

Why would "mail[.example.com]" cause a system to be marked as a new server?
Wouldn't it be marked as a mail server?

I've encountered many mail servers that begin with "mail." (or "mail#."
where # represents one or more digits) as part of their hostname (for which
reverse-DNS correctly matches). We've been using mail. for decades with our
outbound IPv4 and IPv6 addresses without any problems, but I'm curious to
know more if you've discovered such naming to be problematic.

[Adam W.]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Adam W.
I did it too (I'm not sure which configuration option affects EHLO, maybe
it takes it from smtpd_banner, or maybe from hostname, but I checked that
it sends vps.chmurka.net now). Thanks.

So, why IS it called vps.chmurka.net if it is not a vps?

But it is on a VPS.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Adam W.

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Adam W.
I did it too (I'm not sure which configuration option affects EHLO, maybe
it takes it from smtpd_banner, or maybe from hostname, but I checked that
it sends vps.chmurka.net now). Thanks.

So, why IS it called vps.chmurka.net if it is not a vps?

But it is on a VPS.

Okay, that will also get points against you. How many? Depends on the
recipient.
--scott

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Grant Taylor
I advocate for having sending server hello with an FQDN that matches the
name that forward & reverse DNS. -- Many will say that this isn't as
important. I think it shows good intentions. And I believe that
visible good intentions are a Good Thing (TM) when trying to make your
system stand out as a good netizine.

I don't care about that. What I care about is whether this is the cause
of the immediate problem or not. You could find this out by looking at
one of the messages that were dropped into a spam folder and see the
headers which would indicate why the message was marked as spam. But
this is likely to be one of them. There may be more, though.
--scott

[John Levine]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Ivo Gandolfo
A lot complaining if the name on the certificate don't match the reverse
of the ip('s). I suggest to change your certificate or your reverse.

This will cause major problems for web services,

Yup. You need matching rDNS.

Post by Scott Dorsey
but the SSL certs on the web server have nothing to do with email.

This might be a good time to review RFCs 6698 and 8461.

In this case the rDNS is much more likely to be the problem, but the SSL
certs on the server can have plenty to do with mail.

[Adam W.]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Ivo Gandolfo
mx.chmurka.net has address 81.4.124.88
88.124.4.81.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vps.chmurka.net.

Okay, now THIS is a major issue. If your rDNS doesn't match up with your
forward DNS, a lot of sites are going to drop email.

Hmm, I didn't know that.

I think I fixed it:

- created new certificate for vps.chmurka.net
- made Postfix use this key and certificate (instead of the one for mx.chmurka.net)
- changed MX from mx.chmurka.net to vps.chmurka.net
- changed banner from "220 chmurka.net ESMTP" to "220 vps.chmurka.net ESMTP"

Hopefully it will be better now...

Thanks!

[SugarBug]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 19:33:41 -0000 (UTC)
gof-cut-this-***@cut-this-chmurka.net.invalid (Adam W.) wrote:

Check out the RackNerd and other provider deals at
https://lowendbox.com.

Chat with the VPS rep before you sign up. Ask them about which of
their locations are not in that greedy Swiss grifer's RBL. Whatever
host you choose, make sure they have a range for you that is not
marked by the extortioner. He puts entire IP ranges in his blacklist to
try to extort money from the victims. If you pay him he will remove
your IP. Then no doubt his cousin in some other district will add you
to get more sucker money.

The Swiss grifter refuses to remove some IP ranges from his extortion
list. So it is vital to make sure you are getting your IP in a range
that is not in there. Sadly, a few big email providers help him run his
scam and actually use his RBL, which should be prosecuted, IMHO.

I have a server in Racknerd's Dallas range. Email has been working fine
for over a year.

[John]

Post by Adam W.
Hi,
I'm running my own mail server for my own domain (chmurka.net) on a
dedicated IP address in RamNode (81.4.124.88). Despite doing everything I
possibly can (I have SPF records, I have OpenDKIM running to add DKIM
headers, I have TLS enabled with a certificate from Let's Encrypt)
sometimes email sent by me ends up in spam folders.
I checked and I'm not in any RBLs (none I know of). Maybe the IP
reputation is bad, because it belongs to a VPS hosting company (even if
it's used exclusively by me for the last seven years and there's been no
spam or abuse coming from it since then).
Do any of you have any suggestions where to check the IP, how to de-list
it, or where to move the SMTP server? Or maybe there's some paid relay
service that I could sign up to, and they will relay my mail?
I need to change only outgoing SMTP to work this way. Incoming mail works
fine (because why wouldn't it...).

I've been impressed with Panix, primarily because they actually phoned
me to verify my account when I signed up. I also exchanged emails with
their staff before signing up, and they claim to be pretty careful about
spammers operating out of their IP space, responsive to complaints about
abuse, etc. -- personally I think the extra step of phone verification
is probably enough to make most spammers stick to DigitalOcean.

Anyway, I've been running a mail server with Panix for a few months and
have had no deliverability problems.

john

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by John
I've been impressed with Panix, primarily because they actually phoned
me to verify my account when I signed up. I also exchanged emails with
their staff before signing up, and they claim to be pretty careful about
spammers operating out of their IP space, responsive to complaints about
abuse, etc. -- personally I think the extra step of phone verification
is probably enough to make most spammers stick to DigitalOcean.
Anyway, I've been running a mail server with Panix for a few months and
have had no deliverability problems.

Indeed. I have not encountered any ISP as generally conscientious and
willing to support actual computer people as Panix.

However, I did receive spam from a Panix user once, I think from an address
scraped from Usenet. It was not entirely off-the-wall though:

--cut here--
From ***@panix.com Wed Mar 19 18:27:34 2008
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on
mailbackend.panix.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-147.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED
autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Lines: 15
Return-Path: <***@panix.com>
X-Original-To: ***@panix.com
Delivered-To: ***@panix.com
Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74])
by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC831A25A
for <***@panix.com>; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1])
by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC9C13A8CC
for <***@panix.com>; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from ***@localhost)
by panix1.panix.com (8.11.6p3/8.8.8/PanixN1.1) id m2JMRXG03522
for ***@panix.com; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***@panix.com>
Message-Id: <***@panix1.panix.com>
To: ***@panix.com
Subject: rs232 to vga converter
Status: R



rs232 to vga converter

The Rs-Big-Print converts an rs232 serial input to a
vga output compatible with most vga monitors. It turns a spare
video monitor into a cost effective readout for all sorts of
applications requiring large letters and numbers viewable from
ten, twenty and thirty feet.
Two text sizes are included. The larger has 6 lines
with 12 characters on each line. The smaller has 8 lines with
20 characters each.

Come to WWW.RS-BIG-PRINT.COM to see examples of the
display, a photograph of the device and further description.

[John]

Post by Scott Dorsey
Indeed. I have not encountered any ISP as generally conscientious and
willing to support actual computer people as Panix.
However, I did receive spam from a Panix user once, I think from an address
--cut here--
Subject: rs232 to vga converter
Status: R
rs232 to vga converter
The Rs-Big-Print converts an rs232 serial input to a
vga output compatible with most vga monitors. It turns a spare
video monitor into a cost effective readout for all sorts of
applications requiring large letters and numbers viewable from
ten, twenty and thirty feet.
Two text sizes are included. The larger has 6 lines
with 12 characters on each line. The smaller has 8 lines with
20 characters each.
Come to WWW.RS-BIG-PRINT.COM to see examples of the
display, a photograph of the device and further description.

Hey, look, the first time a spam email actually advertised something
that's kind of interesting to me!

john

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by John

Post by Scott Dorsey
Indeed. I have not encountered any ISP as generally conscientious and
willing to support actual computer people as Panix.
However, I did receive spam from a Panix user once, I think from an address
--cut here--

That address might be valid.

Post by John

Post by Scott Dorsey
Come to WWW RS-BIG-PRINT . COM to see examples of the
display, a photograph of the device and further description.

Hey, look, the first time a spam email actually advertised something
that's kind of interesting to me!

Hope you're not ordering alone for the fact that it is spam.

[Randolf Richardson 張文道]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:36:38 -0600

On Friday, 12 January 2024 14:24 -0500,

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by John

Post by Scott Dorsey
Indeed. I have not encountered any ISP as generally conscientious
and willing to support actual computer people as Panix.
However, I did receive spam from a Panix user once, I think from
an address scraped from Usenet. It was not entirely off-the-wall
--cut here--

That address might be valid.

It is.

I find it interesting that the order link goes directly to a
form hosted on the main PANIX web site:

https://www.panix.com/~ht/pcgi/forms.cgi

(The "fmscount counter" field shows 3888 for me.)

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by John

Post by Scott Dorsey
Come to WWW RS-BIG-PRINT . COM to see examples of the
display, a photograph of the device and further description.

Hey, look, the first time a spam email actually advertised
something that's kind of interesting to me!

That actually is an interesting product. It looks reasonable
dated too; like something that could possibly date back to the
1970s (even though VGA technology isn't even that old -- VGA was
introduced by IBM in 1987, I believe).

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Hope you're not ordering alone for the fact that it is spam.

Remember the Boulder Pledge!

That's important, and I remember that the late Roger Ebert
created it:

https://www.lumbercartel.ca/glossary/boulderpledge.pl

Thanks for honouring him.