Discussion:
Discover loses appeal of sanctions for bad faith appeal
(too old to reply)
Joe Wagner
2004-11-21 09:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,
Five months after Discover Financial Services appealed the
awarding of sanctions against them for their bad faith appeals of
their loses in small claims court for spamming, we just received the
3+ page decision by the Presiding Judge of San Mateo County upholding
the sanctions awarded. Alas he said there wasn't a legal reason for
increasing the sanctions... Still we'll see if they are able to
calculate the additional 10% simple interest from June 3. Ironically,
the lawyers for the credit card company couldn't do that simple math
calculation correctly for the $10k award after they lost their
appeals. I had to threaten to do a debtors hearing on Discover, and
then email them a spread sheet showing the math, the last time around.
Finally, for those reading this post to the end, here's a sneak
heads up. I spoke with Kraft's lawyer this past week about the
Gevalia spam we've been getting -- most of it clearly illegal. What do
people think of the following draft press release title (it needs a
little tweaking):

"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."

More when it develops...

Joe
Ronald D. Edge
2004-11-21 12:52:07 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@posting.google.com>,
joepublicg-***@HYPERBACKUP.COM says...
...
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
More when it develops...
Joe
No, no, you missed a chance to start a real pun cascade, a real cup of
Joe, as it were.

"More as it brews" is what you meant to say.
--
Ron.
http://edgeinfotech.com
http://mainsleazespam.com
http://keepamericafree.com
http://iuhoosiers.com
All content of this post == my personal, subjective, jaded opinion.
Scott Wertz
2004-11-21 16:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronald D. Edge
"More as it brews" is what you meant to say.
I doubt they bruise easily.
McWebber
2004-11-22 04:09:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronald D. Edge
...
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
More when it develops...
Joe
No, no, you missed a chance to start a real pun cascade, a real cup of
Joe, as it were.
"More as it brews" is what you meant to say.
Sounds like a tempest in a coffee pot.
Charles Hawtrey
2004-11-21 15:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
Finally, for those reading this post to the end, here's a sneak
heads up. I spoke with Kraft's lawyer this past week about the
Gevalia spam we've been getting -- most of it clearly illegal. What do
people think of the following draft press release title (it needs a
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
It depends on your goal. The title is fine if all you want to do is
vent. If you want to encourage reporters to pick up the story, you
need a shorter, snappier, and less confrontational title that's
understandable by technologically-illiterate people (i.e., reporters)
who don't understand terms like "ISP."

The "hot cup of" bit is good but the rest needs work.
Joe Wagner
2004-11-21 23:25:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
you need a shorter, snappier, and less confrontational title that's
understandable by technologically-illiterate people (i.e., reporters)
who don't understand terms like "ISP."
I agree. We have are working on polishing the legal brief and the
press release and have some good people to help with the copy.
However, NANAE sports a fair number of clever punsters who may come up
with some good ideas. I believe humor and a catchy title will go far
in getting reporters (and other businesses thinking of hiring
spammers) to pay notice. Mainstream companies need to be made aware of
the legal and financial risk of going mainsleaze. Our own _liquidated_
damages under CA law (and CAN-SPAM) against Gevalia is in the
seven-figure range (and rising). But more companies are looking into
hiring spammers, and we hope to give them pause and to help them
realize that they won't be able to wash their hands of responsibility
when their hired spammers (as as they call them "independent
contractors, whom we've no control over") break the law.

The "shut-the-hell-up" I more than suspect may not to make it in the
final release, and I'm definitely open to suggestions - cup of
"shut-the-heck-up" or doesn't feel as good and perhaps "shut-up" is
too rude as many a mother will tell their children. I do like the
'serve a cup of ___' theme though. It'd be nice to encompass the fact
that they've been using illegal spam for years, if not in the headline
then near the top. I'm also not too concerned with using "ISP" since
reporters of less tech-savvy publication could translate/substitute a
reader appropriate term, though we could just use "Hypertouch."

I do like the "More as it brews" -- thanks for the suggestion. Could
even make it "More news, as it brews" depending on the cadence called
for in the surrounding prose. We're also polishing the draft and
release for a CAN-SPAM/CA B&P Code action against California
diploma-mill Kennedy-Western University but no fruitful inspirations
yet: (must be something better than the obvious 'Hypertouch to teach
diploma-mill KW...' ?) So if anyone feels inspired, please chime in.

In a closing note, BluestreamMedia/Bobvila.com is winding down (and
with possible $12k donation to Spamcon--if they are still open, or to
spamhaus.org).

Joe
Socks the white house cat
2004-11-21 23:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
you need a shorter, snappier, and less confrontational title that's
understandable by technologically-illiterate people (i.e., reporters)
who don't understand terms like "ISP."
I agree. We have are working on polishing the legal brief and the
press release and have some good people to help with the copy.
However, NANAE sports a fair number of clever punsters who may come up
with some good ideas.
Something about "Kraft's cheesy spam" would seem indicated.

IMO, no one has heard of Gevalia. Everyone has heard of Kraft.

Make sure the dollar amount you're talking about is towards the top of the
story. "$2 Million will buy alot of Cheese Whiz", or some such.
--
I AM SPEWS (SLAPP PREVENTION ELECTRONIC WHITENOISE SYSTEM)
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day
that they start making vacuum cleaners."--Doc in alt.privacy
Etaoin Shrdlu
2004-11-22 03:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Socks the white house cat
Something about "Kraft's cheesy spam" would seem indicated.
IMO, no one has heard of Gevalia. Everyone has heard of Kraft.
Well, this Jargon File entry is somewhat on-topic, and genuinely
Krafty...

http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon-print.asp?w=velveeta

--
My little NANAE hangout: http://www.spamreaper.org/etaoin
To e-mail me KEEP THE ".nospam" portion of my address!!!!
Have you hugged a cat today???

I miss the good old Jewish Jesus Christ that was so full of
love, but he was shot by the hateful American Jesus Christ.
Murray Watson
2004-11-22 07:03:34 UTC
Permalink
In news.admin.net-abuse.email - article <***@216.168.3.44>, on Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:48:40 -0700, Socks
the white house cat says...
Post by Socks the white house cat
Post by Joe Wagner
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
you need a shorter, snappier, and less confrontational title that's
understandable by technologically-illiterate people (i.e., reporters)
who don't understand terms like "ISP."
I agree. We have are working on polishing the legal brief and the
press release and have some good people to help with the copy.
However, NANAE sports a fair number of clever punsters who may come up
with some good ideas.
Something about "Kraft's cheesy spam" would seem indicated.
IMO, no one has heard of Gevalia. Everyone has heard of Kraft.
Make sure the dollar amount you're talking about is towards the top of the
story. "$2 Million will buy alot of Cheese Whiz", or some such.
I'm not too sure mininizing Gevalia is in our best interest, Gevalia
is the cream of the crop, PREMIER, PREMIUM, A CUT ABOVE THE REST.
Preseneting "If we let the cream of the crop sink to the lows of
[...] get by with it, what's to stop the onslage of "main sleeze"
(which needs to be described) who have less of a reputation at stake.
(which is not a legal premise but does parlay)."
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-22 01:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 21 Nov 2004,
Post by Joe Wagner
The "shut-the-hell-up" I more than suspect may not to make it in the
final release, and I'm definitely open to suggestions - cup of
"shut-the-heck-up" or doesn't feel as good and perhaps "shut-up" is
too rude as many a mother will tell their children. I do like the
'serve a cup of ___' theme though.
How about hemlock? It worked for Socrates.
--
Solid Web hosting, responsive support, effective spam-blocking.
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Brad Jesness FAQ: http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
Mike Flugennock
2004-11-21 15:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
Hi All,
Five months after Discover Financial Services appealed the
awarding of sanctions against them for their bad faith appeals of
their loses in small claims court for spamming, we just received the
3+ page decision by the Presiding Judge of San Mateo County upholding
the sanctions awarded. Alas he said there wasn't a legal reason for
increasing the sanctions... Still we'll see if they are able to
calculate the additional 10% simple interest from June 3. Ironically,
the lawyers for the credit card company couldn't do that simple math
calculation correctly for the $10k award after they lost their
appeals. I had to threaten to do a debtors hearing on Discover, and
then email them a spread sheet showing the math, the last time around.
Finally, for those reading this post to the end, here's a sneak
heads up. I spoke with Kraft's lawyer this past week about the
Gevalia spam we've been getting -- most of it clearly illegal. What do
people think of the following draft press release title (it needs a
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
Damn. That's an _awesome_ headline.
--
"All over, people changing their votes,
along with their overcoats;
if Adolf Hitler flew in today,
they'd send a limousine anyway!" --the clash.
___________________________________________________________________
Mike Flugennock, flugennock at sinkers dot org
Mike Flugennock's Mikey'zine, dubya dubya dubya dot sinkers dot org
Robert Bonomi
2004-11-21 15:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
Hi All,
Finally, for those reading this post to the end, here's a sneak
heads up. I spoke with Kraft's lawyer this past week about the
Gevalia spam we've been getting -- most of it clearly illegal. What do
people think of the following draft press release title (it needs a
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
Not _nearly_ creative enough. Howsabout:
"Gevalia's latest flavor (spam) lands Kraft division in hot water -- ISP
files class-action lawsuit against unsolicited e-mails"
Post by Joe Wagner
More when it develops...
Joe
Tero Paananen
2004-11-21 15:49:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
Hi All,
Five months after Discover Financial Services appealed the
awarding of sanctions against them for their bad faith appeals of
their loses in small claims court for spamming, we just received the
3+ page decision by the Presiding Judge of San Mateo County upholding
the sanctions awarded. Alas he said there wasn't a legal reason for
increasing the sanctions... Still we'll see if they are able to
calculate the additional 10% simple interest from June 3. Ironically,
the lawyers for the credit card company couldn't do that simple math
calculation correctly for the $10k award after they lost their
appeals. I had to threaten to do a debtors hearing on Discover, and
then email them a spread sheet showing the math, the last time around.
Go Joe!

Up yours, spammer scum!

-TPP
--
Q: "What do the FBI and convicted criminals have in common?"
A: "Both don't give a damn about the laws."
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-21 16:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 21 Nov 2004,
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
"Gevalia spams, faces the judge." Short and to the point.
--
Solid Web hosting, responsive support, effective spam-blocking.
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Brad Jesness FAQ: http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
Stephen Satchell
2004-11-22 04:28:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 21 Nov 2004,
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
"Gevalia spams, faces the judge." Short and to the point.
"Gevalia serves up spam mail, judge to taste test."
David C. Stone
2004-11-22 14:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Satchell
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 21 Nov 2004,
Post by Joe Wagner
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
"Gevalia spams, faces the judge." Short and to the point.
"Gevalia serves up spam mail, judge to taste test."
"Gevalia in hot water over coffee spam - legal case brewing"

Joe Wagner
2004-11-21 23:42:26 UTC
Permalink
We're also polishing the draft and release for a CAN-SPAM /
CA B&P Code action against California diploma-mill Kennedy-Western
University but no fruitful inspirations yet...
I forgot to add the (*) after that statement with links. I've not
purchase a degree from them or have detailed knowledge of the services
that Kennedy-Western University provides -- other than getting spam
for them. But a fair number of state and federal government folks
call them a diploma mill(*)...

Joe

(*)http://govt-aff.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=176
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,63436,00.html
http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html
"Diploma mill, so classified owing to excessive award of experiential
credits and the absence of meaningful, consistent evaluation by
qualified faculty of college-level work by students. Degrees may
occasionally include college-level work but this is not required.
See also: Senate Hearing Day 1 ; Senate Hearing Day 2"
glgxg
2004-11-22 01:11:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Wagner
Hi All,
Five months after Discover Financial Services appealed the
awarding of sanctions against them for their bad faith appeals of
their loses in small claims court for spamming, we just received the
3+ page decision by the Presiding Judge of San Mateo County upholding
the sanctions awarded. Alas he said there wasn't a legal reason for
increasing the sanctions... Still we'll see if they are able to
calculate the additional 10% simple interest from June 3. Ironically,
the lawyers for the credit card company couldn't do that simple math
calculation correctly for the $10k award after they lost their
appeals. I had to threaten to do a debtors hearing on Discover, and
then email them a spread sheet showing the math, the last time around.
Finally, for those reading this post to the end, here's a sneak
heads up. I spoke with Kraft's lawyer this past week about the
Gevalia spam we've been getting -- most of it clearly illegal. What do
people think of the following draft press release title (it needs a
"ISP serves Gevalia a hot cup of shut-the-hell-up with class action
for coffee spam."
More when it develops...
Joe
Congrats again on DFS!

For Gevalia:

"Coffee, Tea, or spam? Gevalia gets served with class action lawsuit"
McWebber
2004-11-22 04:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by glgxg
Congrats again on DFS!
"Coffee, Tea, or spam? Gevalia gets served with class action lawsuit"
"Spam in Your Coffee? ISP Says No Thanks"
Randolf Richardson
2004-11-22 11:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by McWebber
Post by glgxg
Congrats again on DFS!
"Coffee, Tea, or spam? Gevalia gets served with class action lawsuit"
"Spam in Your Coffee? ISP Says No Thanks"
Heheh, they're probably too busy pissing in someone's corn flakes.
--
Randolf Richardson, pro-active spam fighter - ***@8x.ca
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Sending eMail to other SMTP servers is a privilege.
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