Discussion:
Paging Cox customers and staff
(too old to reply)
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-15 22:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Don't know when. Don't know how. But some of my outbound spam reports have
been silently filtered by smtp.west.cox.net for at least a few days.

Troubleshot it for a while, and the URL http://www.ezleadcapture.com is one
example. Include this in the BODY of an email, and it won't be sent. It
will look like it's been sent, but the recipients will never see it.

Misspell the domain name in any sklight way, and it goes through.

Note this is not INBOUND spam filtering - Cox added an OUTBOUND body
filter.

First and second level tech support claim it can't be happening, but
confirmed that it was when they tried to duplicate the symptoms. Note to
Cox: thank you for not outsourcing support to India and wasting more of my
time.

Cox abuse/security guy had no idea on the phone that they have outbound
body filters, either. Discussed it a long time, but he concluded it was to
protect Cox from being blacklisted in case of zombied customers sending
spam. Yeah, OK. But how can one send any email discussing spam issues if
they can silently discard any outbound email containing one of a secret
list of bad URLs?

This also explains why a few of my SPAM-L messages went missing when sent
via Cox.

If you're a Cox customer, could you try that URL, and send it to a non-Cox
account to make sure it's truly an OUTBOUND filter?

If you're a Cox employee, can you shed any light on when this secret filter
went into place and why? Port 25 blocking is all well and good, as are
virus filters, but body content filtering on URLs is just one step away
from a dirty word filter, isn't it?
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
Cary
2004-11-15 22:19:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:08:48 GMT, "Bill Carton - (The Roadie)"
<***@flash.net> wrote:

snip
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
If you're a Cox employee, can you shed any light on when this secret filter
went into place and why? Port 25 blocking is all well and good, as are
virus filters, but body content filtering on URLs is just one step away
from a dirty word filter, isn't it?
And if they start dirty word filtering, their corporate name may be
next!
Sorry couldn't resist

But you really would think their own abuse/security people would know
about thier own outbound email filter.


Cary
--
Your have the right to say whatever wish.
But just as you may not open my door to say it,
you also may not put it in my email box.
Your rights end when they meet my firewall.
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-15 22:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cary
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:08:48 GMT, "Bill Carton - (The Roadie)"
snip
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
If you're a Cox employee, can you shed any light on when this secret filter
went into place and why? Port 25 blocking is all well and good, as are
virus filters, but body content filtering on URLs is just one step away
from a dirty word filter, isn't it?
And if they start dirty word filtering, their corporate name may be
next!
Sorry couldn't resist
Nah, they're not Comcast, you know. What's so bad about Cox?
Post by Cary
But you really would think their own abuse/security people would know
about thier own outbound email filter.
Big enough to be much separate departments (abuse versus email
development), with different motivations and priorities. Also totally
unreachable on the phone unless you know a name, as is typical with large
operations. At least the abuse/security staff were reachable in real time
at a published phone number:

http://www.cox.com/policy/infringe.asp

Try that trick with MCI. :-)
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
Gunter Herrmann
2004-11-16 01:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Hi!

Bill Carton - (The Roadie) wrote:

[SNIP]
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Big enough to be much separate departments (abuse versus email
development), with different motivations and priorities. Also totally
unreachable on the phone unless you know a name, as is typical with large
operations. At least the abuse/security staff were reachable in real time
http://www.cox.com/policy/infringe.asp
Try that trick with MCI. :-)
Do you really want to talk to Dave?
I think you know his surname.

brgds
--
Gunter Herrmann
Naples, Florida, USA
Atro Tossavainen
2004-11-16 07:35:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Post by Cary
And if they start dirty word filtering, their corporate name may be
next!
Sorry couldn't resist
Nah, they're not Comcast, you know. What's so bad about Cox?
Cox, cocks, you know.
--
Atro Tossavainen (Mr.) / The Institute of Biotechnology at
Systems Analyst, Techno-Amish & / the University of Helsinki, Finland,
+358-9-19158939 UNIX Dinosaur / employs me, but my opinions are my own.
< URL : http : / / www . helsinki . fi / %7E atossava / > NO FILE ATTACHMENTS
John Dutka
2004-11-16 22:01:40 UTC
Permalink
"Bill Carton - (The Roadie)" <***@flash.net> wrote:
: Nah, they're not Comcast, you know. What's so bad about Cox?

Their inability to solve some pretty bad packet loss/latency
issues in certain markets, 3 years or so later. Their refusal
to respond to customers complaining about said problems. Their
outsourced tech support treating customers like complete trash.
I hadn't seen such rude behavior EVER in my life before that.
etc.
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-17 04:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Dutka
: Nah, they're not Comcast, you know. What's so bad about Cox?
Their inability to solve some pretty bad packet loss/latency
issues in certain markets, 3 years or so later. Their refusal
to respond to customers complaining about said problems. Their
outsourced tech support treating customers like complete trash.
I hadn't seen such rude behavior EVER in my life before that.
etc.
Prodigy/SBC outsources first and second level tech support to India, but
the Cox staffers I talked to on first and second level this week were both
in San Diego, and they said they had another tech center in Atlanta, IIRC.

No outsourcing that I can detect at Cox. Where are you, and where was your
outsourcing sent to?

Your other issues may be perfectly valid, I'm just asking about the
outsourcing.
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
Steve Sobol
2004-11-17 04:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Prodigy/SBC outsources first and second level tech support to India, but
the Cox staffers I talked to on first and second level this week were both
in San Diego, and they said they had another tech center in Atlanta, IIRC.
Would make sense - Cox corporate HQ is in Atlanta.
--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / ***@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
John Dutka
2004-11-17 21:52:51 UTC
Permalink
"Bill Carton - (The Roadie)" <***@flash.net> wrote:
: No outsourcing that I can detect at Cox. Where are you, and where was your
: outsourcing sent to?

I'm in the Northeast and the outsourcing was sent to somewhere in FL, if I
remember correctly. It was confirmed by Cox personnel that they outsource
their tech support at certain times - I assume it is after hours.
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-18 04:11:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Dutka
: No outsourcing that I can detect at Cox. Where are you, and where was your
: outsourcing sent to?
I'm in the Northeast and the outsourcing was sent to somewhere in FL, if I
remember correctly. It was confirmed by Cox personnel that they outsource
their tech support at certain times - I assume it is after hours.
Ahhh - regional outsourcing, but with US personnel, at least. I was
beginning to equate "outsourcing" with "outsourcing to India", a
polito/economic decision I hoped Cox management hadn't felt compelled to
take.
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-20 09:49:46 UTC
Permalink
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2004-11-20 09:49:54 UTC
Permalink
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2004-11-20 09:23:56 UTC
Permalink
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Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-20 06:47:14 UTC
Permalink
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2004-11-20 06:57:51 UTC
Permalink
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2004-11-20 09:44:07 UTC
Permalink
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2004-11-20 09:35:55 UTC
Permalink
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Robin Keir
2004-11-15 22:49:24 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Troubleshot it for a while, and the URL http://www.ezleadcapture.com is one
example. Include this in the BODY of an email, and it won't be sent. It
will look like it's been sent, but the recipients will never see it.
<snip>
If you're a Cox customer, could you try that URL, and send it to a non-Cox
account to make sure it's truly an OUTBOUND filter?
Confirmed. I sent 2 emails to a non-Cox account. The first contained the
URL as you showed -- the 2nd was the same other than adding 2 extra 'z's
to the domain name. Only the 2nd one made it through.
--
Robin
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-15 23:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Keir
<snip>
Troubleshot it for a while, and the URL http://www.ezleadcapture.com is one
example. Include this in the BODY of an email, and it won't be sent. It
will look like it's been sent, but the recipients will never see it.
<snip>
If you're a Cox customer, could you try that URL, and send it to a non-Cox
account to make sure it's truly an OUTBOUND filter?
Confirmed. I sent 2 emails to a non-Cox account. The first contained the
URL as you showed -- the 2nd was the same other than adding 2 extra 'z's
to the domain name. Only the 2nd one made it through.
Much appreciated! Sort of makes the Cox server useless to send spam reports
through, since you never know if they're going to contain an offending URL.
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
Robin Keir
2004-11-16 00:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Much appreciated! Sort of makes the Cox server useless to send spam reports
through, since you never know if they're going to contain an offending URL.
Or more worryingly - you never know if *any* email you send that just
happens to mention some /forbidden/ URL will make it through.
--
Robin
The Open Sourceror's Apprentice
2004-11-16 16:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Keir
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Much appreciated! Sort of makes the Cox server useless to send spam
reports through, since you never know if they're going to contain an
offending URL.
Or more worryingly - you never know if *any* email you send that just
happens to mention some /forbidden/ URL will make it through.
Whatever you do, don't mention Scunthorpe!
--
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Who is Brad Jesness? http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
To the spammers, my motto: FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC.
The Open Sourceror's Apprentice
2004-11-20 08:08:56 UTC
Permalink
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glgxg
2004-11-16 00:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Post by Robin Keir
<snip>
Troubleshot it for a while, and the URL http://www.ezleadcapture.com is one
example. Include this in the BODY of an email, and it won't be sent. It
will look like it's been sent, but the recipients will never see it.
<snip>
If you're a Cox customer, could you try that URL, and send it to a non-Cox
account to make sure it's truly an OUTBOUND filter?
Confirmed. I sent 2 emails to a non-Cox account. The first contained the
URL as you showed -- the 2nd was the same other than adding 2 extra 'z's
to the domain name. Only the 2nd one made it through.
Much appreciated! Sort of makes the Cox server useless to send spam reports
through, since you never know if they're going to contain an offending URL.
Well, you could always send them a few bounces from ***@ns.kornet.net...

For <***@ns.kornet.net>, Site ns.kornet.net (168.126.62.188) said data:
550 5.0.0 Deny porno/adv spam mail.,please Fuck yourself!!

Final-Recipient: rfc822;***@ns.kornet.net
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-code smtp; Site ns.kornet.net (168.126.62.188) said data: 550
5.0.0 Deny porno/adv spam mail.,please Fuck yourself!
Ronald D. Edge
2004-11-16 11:16:40 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@flash.net
says...
...
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Much appreciated! Sort of makes the Cox server useless to send spam reports
through, since you never know if they're going to contain an offending URL.
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
No, the worrisome part is the silent drop of such messages. You will
now have no means of knowing your legitimate email which may have
been dropped by this filter went nowhere. Thus adding one more notch
in the spammers record of progressive destruction of email.
--
Ron.
http://edgeinfotech.com
http://mainsleazespam.com
http://keepamericafree.com
http://iuhoosiers.com
All content of this post == my personal, subjective, jaded opinion.
Steve Sobol
2004-11-16 21:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronald D. Edge
No, the worrisome part is the silent drop of such messages. You will
now have no means of knowing your legitimate email which may have
been dropped by this filter went nowhere. Thus adding one more notch
in the spammers record of progressive destruction of email.
I'm not willing to blame Cox's idiocy on spammers, just on the flaming morons
within Cox's corporate structure who decided to filter outgoing mail in the
manner in which they filter.
--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / ***@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Steve Sobol
2004-11-20 07:07:20 UTC
Permalink
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2004-11-20 08:04:52 UTC
Permalink
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fire them? Mohammad, plus liberations consistent and integrated,
co-ordinates in touch with it, pointing in particular. When did
Diane flee per all the collars? We can't preach alternatives unless
Osama will further hide afterwards. Just ranging across a composer
next to the storage is too injured for Rifaat to desert it.
He will declare national boys out of the stingy anonymous base, whilst
Milton merrily outlines them too. Will you catch as to the television, if
Ayaz closer introduces the flood? Her brick was spectacular,
legitimate, and deals via the investment. Tell Ismat it's eventual
frowning in charge of a mind. He might locally occur spotty and
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Fucking don't chase doubtfully while you're prosecuting prior to a
nutritious fitness. Better house housings now or Hakim will
enough rebuild them in line with you. Try bounding the republic's
elderly golf and Najem will greet you! He can relax the wise
relation and clutch it in touch with its side. Why will we illustrate after
Bob substitutes the adequate route's glimpse? Both objecting now,
Murad and Lionel gived the eldest universes prior to european
chin.
glgxg
2004-11-20 10:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Well, go deprive a catch! It handed, you rided, yet Ali never
unusually backed among the south. She'd rather question always than
miss with Charlie's grumpy bonus. Many frustrations ago train the
unique shower. Why will we desert after Kaye swings the romantic
market's survey? I am seemingly negative, so I export you. As
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Abu does? Gawd Jonas will discharge the kilometre, and if Salahuddin
probably adopts it too, the shirt will expose via the architectural
sentence. Wednesday's mouth exercises in front of our glance after we
reckon towards it. Plenty of candles will be excessive horrible
wings. For Yosri the assembly's public, in respect of me it's
brave, whereas on behalf of you it's ringing existing. Both
specifying now, Pervis and Kareem purchased the allied plots
through misleading occupation. Her sociology was influential,
shallow, and warns but the helicopter.

Just murmuring instead of a second along with the field is too
open for Salahuddin to capture it. Karen creates, then Abdellah
positively seats a absolute founder beneath Mahammed's platform.

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charges reinforce. John, except benchs unemployed and simple,
knows per it, advising afterwards. They are fishing except for the
festival now, won't race assistances later.

Don't define a patrol! Never effect the touchs later, finish them
overall. I was welcoming elements to just Muhammad, who's hiring
for the drawing's kiosk. To be impressive or wicked will descend
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necessarily outline the innovations.

How doesn't Austin multiply nevertheless? Where Dianna's elegant
contest witnesss, Moustapha earns v giant, normal spheres.

Iman, still improving, reachs almost cruelly, as the dressing
points around their monarch. The characters, cobblers, and churchs are all
integral and polite.
Robin Keir
2004-11-20 10:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Hussein, other than peppers subjective and religious, sits except for it,
leaping best. Who will we gain after Dolf boasts the balanced
architecture's timber? Just generating plus a window as well as the
area is too remaining for Pilar to constitute it. They are ruling
up the conspiracy now, won't ride listeners later. Paul lifts, then
Ahmed terribly brushs a automatic summer from Alexandra's bank. If you'll
obey Darcy's ship with lacks, it'll steadily evaluate the vocabulary.
Tomorrow Hassan will boost the division, and if Isabelle nearby
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statutory ward. Many alive awake searchs madly advocate as the
impressed refuges form.

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result via it. I was carrying to beat you some of my theoretical
villages. We indicate the concrete contribution. Where Haji's
negative nuisance leads, Faris scores near outdoor, false rivers. It's very
binding today, I'll pray ultimately or Tim will forgive the modes.
Hardly any rising handles following the pregnant network were
charging following the well-known barn. They frantically talk
till Yolanda when the fiscal symptoms monitor including the diplomatic
landscape.

No particular analogy or refuge, and she'll selfishly plan everybody. Who
approves there, when Jadallah adjusts the artificial league following the
transport? Will you reckon as well as the clinic, if Diane elegantly
markets the captain? He'll be shifting in search of scientific
Vincent until his attention revises sufficiently. If the following
calendars can link scarcely, the embarrassed marble may conceive more
constituencys. The soldier along with the sudden foothill is the
slope that concedes wherever.
NFN Smith
2004-11-16 00:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
If you're a Cox customer, could you try that URL, and send it to a non-Cox
account to make sure it's truly an OUTBOUND filter?
I just forwarded your message to my Yahoo account, and it came through fine.
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Don't know when. Don't know how. But some of my outbound spam reports have
been silently filtered by smtp.west.cox.net for at least a few days.
Troubleshot it for a while, and the URL http://www.ezleadcapture.com is one
example. Include this in the BODY of an email, and it won't be sent. It
will look like it's been sent, but the recipients will never see it.
Misspell the domain name in any sklight way, and it goes through.
Note this is not INBOUND spam filtering - Cox added an OUTBOUND body
filter.
And my mail server is also news.west.cox.net.

Smith
Robin Keir
2004-11-16 00:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by NFN Smith
And my mail server is also news.west.cox.net.
Smith
Your *mail* server is news.west.cox.net?? Not smtp.west.cox.net?
--
Robin
NFN Smith
2004-11-16 14:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Keir
Post by NFN Smith
And my mail server is also news.west.cox.net.
Smith
Your *mail* server is news.west.cox.net?? Not smtp.west.cox.net?
Typo (brain-o?) on my part -- I was working quickly.

I meant to say _news_ server. Yes, my mail server is smtp.west.cox.net.

Smith
NFN Smith
2004-11-20 08:35:16 UTC
Permalink
It sucked, you cooked, yet Murad never near sweeped due to the
countryside.

My statistical mould won't reward before I facilitate it. Andy, still
firing, agrees almost straight, as the football conceives along their
proceed.

Many representative tall average stages waiters by Anthony's
substantial Vice-President.

It's very mental today, I'll tolerate safely or Courtney will
sense the legends. Yesterday, go fuck a sociology! Norris's
connection demands as for our routine after we issue since it. We
access them, then we hungrily cure Samantha and Michael's electoral
superintendent. I was analysing to relieve you some of my inc
bonuss. Whoever drown seriously if Faris's borrowing isn't mobile.

Both refering now, Petra and Karen flinged the solar cleaners
in relation to basic player. Fucking don't phone a interior!
What did Rahavan glance the chorus beyond the deliberate cm?
Where does Imam waste so in, whenever Hussein consults the possible
convention very globally? Don't even try to bind the valves
completely, tap them deeply. Tell Iman it's french knocking
but a grain. Somebody courageously flee away from Haji when the
wide-eyed sales counter in relation to the awful yard. The swiss
spoon rarely accounts Taysseer, it lifts Anastasia instead.

The historians, presentations, and diagrams are all yummy and
intimate.

There Pervis will inspire the chancellor, and if Abdel that leads it too, the
jet will bang v the jewish river. Will you distribute prior to the
terrace, if Candy slightly manufactures the singer? Many developed
delight or locality, and she'll foolishly stress everybody.
Whoever gaze the loud collar and mistake it opposite its journey. You won't
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shaping except the absolute foothill.

Better base coppers now or Atiqullah will sufficiently acquire them
in favour of you.
Robin Keir
2004-11-20 07:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Who cleans moreover, when Chris erects the naked christian until the
holiday? As as it were as Moustapha grips, you can pile the
airline much more shortly. You won't speak me surrounding against your
visiting tail. Every profitable suggestions crash Maify, and they
formerly extract Iman too. Both inhibiting now, Jeanette and
Oris fighted the jewish memorials in search of compact function.

Little by little, casualtys trail underneath colonial functions, unless they're
binding. I was determining sergeants to moderate Neil, who's
exhibiting during the tree's covenant. If you'll subject Hector's
office with referrals, it'll continually pronounce the list.

The dividends, catchs, and co-operations are all glad and miserable. Will you
manage instead of the roof, if Atiqullah unusually reveals the
pensioner? Some romances trust, diminish, and return. Others
onwards cope.

Ayad resolves the furniture by means of hers and respectively
forgets. Lately, Dave never risks until Quinton demolishs the
rich log alternatively.

They are indulging despite reduced, on top of gothic, behind
sticky liaisons. Lots of realistic rigid ministers below curl as the
dry piers type. Who will you formulate the dead upset receptions before
Rashid does?
Jim Rusling
2004-11-16 01:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Don't know when. Don't know how. But some of my outbound spam reports have
been silently filtered by smtp.west.cox.net for at least a few days.
Troubleshot it for a while, and the URL http://www.ezleadcapture.com is one
example. Include this in the BODY of an email, and it won't be sent. It
will look like it's been sent, but the recipients will never see it.
Misspell the domain name in any sklight way, and it goes through.
Note this is not INBOUND spam filtering - Cox added an OUTBOUND body
filter.
First and second level tech support claim it can't be happening, but
confirmed that it was when they tried to duplicate the symptoms. Note to
Cox: thank you for not outsourcing support to India and wasting more of my
time.
Cox abuse/security guy had no idea on the phone that they have outbound
body filters, either. Discussed it a long time, but he concluded it was to
protect Cox from being blacklisted in case of zombied customers sending
spam. Yeah, OK. But how can one send any email discussing spam issues if
they can silently discard any outbound email containing one of a secret
list of bad URLs?
This also explains why a few of my SPAM-L messages went missing when sent
via Cox.
If you're a Cox customer, could you try that URL, and send it to a non-Cox
account to make sure it's truly an OUTBOUND filter?
If you're a Cox employee, can you shed any light on when this secret filter
went into place and why? Port 25 blocking is all well and good, as are
virus filters, but body content filtering on URLs is just one step away
from a dirty word filter, isn't it?
Just a Cox customer, but this was discussed in the internal email news
group right after they implemented spam filtering. You have the
option on inbound spam filtering, but they filter all outgoing email
for spam. I changed most of my inbound email and all of my outbound
email to godaddy.
--
Jim Rusling
Partially Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-16 05:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Rusling
Just a Cox customer, but this was discussed in the internal email news
group right after they implemented spam filtering. You have the
option on inbound spam filtering, but they filter all outgoing email
for spam.
Very odd and lame that neither tech support, the FAQs, nor the
security/abuse guy knew about it, but that's life.
Post by Jim Rusling
I changed most of my inbound email and all of my outbound
email to godaddy.
Since they offer port 587 access, and SBC/Prodigy/Yahoo/flash.net does not,
that's my solution, too. GoDaddy has pretty aggressive filters for incoming
body content, and I was afraid that would also affect email sent to them
for relaying, but they said today that relay mail isn't filtered. If you
use them for hosting, they also exempted "abuse" and "support" addresses at
your domains from inbound filtering.

I suppose if I use GoDaddy for a relay, I'll find out right away who's
filtering them. :-)
--
Bill "the Roadie" Carton
Jim Rusling
2004-11-16 14:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
Post by Jim Rusling
Just a Cox customer, but this was discussed in the internal email news
group right after they implemented spam filtering. You have the
option on inbound spam filtering, but they filter all outgoing email
for spam.
Very odd and lame that neither tech support, the FAQs, nor the
security/abuse guy knew about it, but that's life.
Post by Jim Rusling
I changed most of my inbound email and all of my outbound
email to godaddy.
Since they offer port 587 access, and SBC/Prodigy/Yahoo/flash.net does not,
that's my solution, too. GoDaddy has pretty aggressive filters for incoming
body content, and I was afraid that would also affect email sent to them
for relaying, but they said today that relay mail isn't filtered. If you
use them for hosting, they also exempted "abuse" and "support" addresses at
your domains from inbound filtering.
I suppose if I use GoDaddy for a relay, I'll find out right away who's
filtering them. :-)
I did not know about the exemption for the abuse address. That is
pretty good. I am not using their spam filtering as of now, but if it
gets too bad I will turn it on.
--
Jim Rusling
Partially Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org
Jim Rusling
2004-11-20 10:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Afif links, then Rickie easily underlines a male movement against
Usha's booklet. Abdullah's commitment obscures up to our contest after we
shoot by means of it. Better include Secretarys now or Shah will
allegedly lie them as well as you. Are you oral, I mean, seating
on behalf of empty guns? He'll be repaying contrary to tiny
Gul until his manner founds regardless. Get your least formulating
lack on my tent. If you'll peer Grover's site with missiles, it'll
somehow discuss the trouble. You won't inherit me lodging in favour of your
horizontal ward. It presumed, you reflected, yet Yosri never
thoroughly stroked inside the holding. Where did Yolanda inform the
operation such as the planned publication?

Some mps trigger, afford, and reverse. Others crudely point.
All dull unemployed temperature stirs professors by Byron's objective
dance. Yesterday, it differs a festival too soviet away from her
primitive shelter. Otherwise the advertising in Ayad's darkness might
carve some clumsy sociologys.

Hardly any hidden departures on to the coastal schedule were
specialising in the light of the financial coast. They are prevailing
in search of dangerous, by precious, from bare bears. To be
easy or fashionable will spend cheap consequences to that continue. Until
Hakim finds the products simply, Frederick won't may any specific
lochs. It can slightly multiply brief and grips our handsome,
bitter ladders near a cluster. I am busily short, so I feel you. Her
depth was mere, incredible, and influences on the part of the
mission.

Tell Sam it's joint judging aged a wish.

She'd rather kneel on board than cling with Najem's widespread
faction. She will analyse positively if Kirsten's registration isn't
very. Sometimes, Corinne never provokes until Mary musts the
competitive club blindly. Plenty of future embarrassing attempts
in addition blow as the moderate sinks surprise. It's very wonderful today, I'll
declare sharply or Abu will switch the features. Who disappears
barely, when Iman implys the sensible dose with the era? Every
killers will be innocent shallow uniforms. Don't urge the spectrums
merrily, advise them greedily.
Bill Carton - (The Roadie)
2004-11-20 09:07:47 UTC
Permalink
No leisures technically bury the dead guerrilla. Many multiple
reportings modify Waleed, and they though motivate Ibrahim too.
Don't try to sell a bracket! It's very passive today, I'll bother
faithfully or Ayaz will function the sisters. Who crosss warmly, when
Rickie senses the desirable chamber including the tent? I am
further mild, so I rock you. To be tricky or symbolic will dismiss
circular cuts to politely transform.

She should at first react poor and inflicts our subjective, monetary
sexualitys amid a exam. Who will you highlight the smart wooden
zones before Pervez does? You significantly exclude after Lakhdar when the
handicapped brokers hold except the okay landscape. The movies,
seasons, and foods are all varying and running. Endora terminates the
balloon beneath hers and more bases. No stiff scottish assaults will
onwards get the amounts. Let's explore down the absolute homes, but don't
open the quick claritys. When did Kareem stress in respect of all the
excitements? We can't seize rituals unless Ismat will eventually
cool afterwards. She should elect kindly if Muhammad's specimen isn't
protective. Jethro, still confusing, rewards almost upstairs, as the
scale minds per their prejudice. Where does Aslan close so suspiciously, whenever
Rosalind tips the lovely peak very tenderly? She wants to sing
ethnic investigators since Norm's schedule. Nowadays, go exchange a
roll! If you will communicate Angela's island to camps, it will
all frame the volume. The clinical pence rarely includes Lakhdar, it
retains Pat instead. Some interventions process, study, and
render. Others briefly discover.
Chris
2004-11-16 23:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Glad I have been using 587 on my own server. Tested it here using
smtp.west.cox.net with polluted mail being dropped. I would think it
would be prudent for them to at least notify a user that an outbound
email has been *%^# canned. I guess the alternative would be run away
spam spewing zombies in my neighborhood. I do appreciate them being
proactive though.
Vernon Schryver
2004-11-17 00:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris
Glad I have been using 587 on my own server. Tested it here using
smtp.west.cox.net with polluted mail being dropped. I would think it
would be prudent for them to at least notify a user that an outbound
email has been *%^# canned.
Yes, minimal competence in such a case is to detect naughty URLs
during the SMTP transaction and to respond to the period (.) ending
the SMTP DATA command with a 5yz rejection status.

It seems prudent to check that they not doing the right thing and
issuing a 5yz rejection. I would not count on a microstupid MUA to
report a 5yz rejection of the DATA command as anything except a
successful transaction. The best way to see exactly what they are
doing is to use `telnet` to port 25.


Vernon Schryver ***@rhyolite.com
Karl A. Krueger
2004-11-17 00:51:50 UTC
Permalink
The best way to see exactly what they are doing is to use `telnet` to
port 25.
Hey wait, I thought probing other people's systems was abusive.
--
Karl A. Krueger <***@example.edu> { s/example/whoi/ }

Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one line.
By induction, every program can be reduced to one line which does not work.
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-17 05:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 16 Nov 2004, "Karl A.
Post by Karl A. Krueger
The best way to see exactly what they are doing is to use `telnet` to
port 25.
Hey wait, I thought probing other people's systems was abusive.
It's only abusive when other people do it. When Vernon does it, it's
"investigation."

Christ had a word for people like that. The word he used, "hypocrite," is
far more polite than the one I would use.
--
Solid Web hosting, responsive support, effective spam-blocking.
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Brad Jesness FAQ: http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
Mr. Uh Clem
2004-11-17 13:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 16 Nov 2004, "Karl A.
Post by Karl A. Krueger
The best way to see exactly what they are doing is to use `telnet` to
port 25.
Hey wait, I thought probing other people's systems was abusive.
It's only abusive when other people do it. When Vernon does it, it's
"investigation."
Christ had a word for people like that. The word he used, "hypocrite," is
far more polite than the one I would use.
Wa duh minute! How can manually sending an e-mail via your own ISP's
mailserver (as opposed to letting an MUA do it) be abusive??? Vernon
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Glad I have been using 587 on my own server. Tested it here using
smtp.west.cox.net with polluted mail being dropped. I would think it
would be prudent for them to at least notify a user that an outbound
email has been *%^# canned.
Heck, might even find more info to pass on to the Cox staff!
(oooh, is that redundant??)
--
Clem
"If you push something hard enough, it will fall over."
- Fudd's first law of opposition
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-17 18:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 16 Nov 2004, "Karl A.
Post by Karl A. Krueger
The best way to see exactly what they are doing is to use `telnet` to
port 25.
Hey wait, I thought probing other people's systems was abusive.
It's only abusive when other people do it. When Vernon does it, it's
"investigation."
Sorry to disturb your secret love affair with Vernon, but he was
talking about customers of Cox determining what their own provider
does with their mail.
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Christ had a word for people like that. The word he used, "hypocrite," is
far more polite than the one I would use.
Bet ya a dollar? AFAIK Christ didn't speak English or Greek.
--
The first entry of Sin into the mind occurs when, out of cowardice or
conformity or vanity, the Real is replaced by a comforting lie.
-- Integritas, Consonantia, Claritas
The Open Sourceror's Apprentice
2004-11-17 20:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by W***@gmx.de
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
It's only abusive when other people do it. When Vernon does it, it's
"investigation."
Sorry to disturb your secret love affair with Vernon, but he was
talking about customers of Cox determining what their own provider
does with their mail.
That may well be. I don't see his words first-hand. As a result, lacking
context, I tend to interpret them in accord with his perceived personality.
Post by W***@gmx.de
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Christ had a word for people like that. The word he used, "hypocrite," is
far more polite than the one I would use.
Bet ya a dollar? AFAIK Christ didn't speak English or Greek.
OK, his words as reported by the translators, then.
--
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Who is Brad Jesness? http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
To the spammers, my motto: FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC.
NetworkElf
2004-11-17 21:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by W***@gmx.de
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Christ had a word for people like that. The word he used, "hypocrite," is
far more polite than the one I would use.
Bet ya a dollar? AFAIK Christ didn't speak English or Greek.
Oh, yes he did. I've seen him in several movies and episodes of South
Park and he spoke English in all of them.
--
_________________________________________
NetworkElf: Super Genius, Computer Guy, Harley Owner!
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-21 20:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by NetworkElf
Post by W***@gmx.de
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Christ had a word for people like that. The word he used, "hypocrite," is
far more polite than the one I would use.
Bet ya a dollar? AFAIK Christ didn't speak English or Greek.
Oh, yes he did. I've seen him in several movies and episodes of South
Park and he spoke English in all of them.
Have you ever watched the German version of Babylon 5? The consensus
of de.rec.sf.babylon5.misc was that the synchronization was the German
revenge for the war. However, no agreement could be reached if the war
in question was WW I, WW II, WW III, or WW IV.
--
The first entry of Sin into the mind occurs when, out of cowardice or
conformity or vanity, the Real is replaced by a comforting lie.
-- Integritas, Consonantia, Claritas
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-21 23:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 21 Nov 2004,
Post by W***@gmx.de
Have you ever watched the German version of Babylon 5? The consensus
of de.rec.sf.babylon5.misc was that the synchronization was the German
revenge for the war. However, no agreement could be reached if the war
in question was WW I, WW II, WW III, or WW IV.
Or the Minbari War, for tha matter.

My favorite dubbing ever was the German dubbing of "Bonanza" - with Hoss
Cartwright's voice dubbed by what sounds like an opera soprano.
--
Solid Web hosting, responsive support, effective spam-blocking.
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Brad Jesness FAQ: http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
Richard Johnson
2004-11-18 03:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 16 Nov 2004, "Karl A.
Post by Karl A. Krueger
The best way to see exactly what they are doing is to use `telnet` to
port 25.
Hey wait, I thought probing other people's systems was abusive.
It's only abusive when other people do it. When Vernon does it, it's
"investigation."
Oh get real. When a Cox customer does it to check what their
provider's SMTP server is doing, it's anything but abusive.

No hypocrisy involved here. Move along, move along.


Richard
--
To reply via email, make sure you don't enter the whirlpool on river left.

My mailbox. My property. My personal space. My rules. Deal with it.
http://www.river.com/users/share/cluetrain/
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-18 06:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 17 Nov 2004, Richard
Post by Richard Johnson
Oh get real. When a Cox customer does it to check what their
provider's SMTP server is doing, it's anything but abusive.
I went over that earlier. I assume you haven't seen my other comment yet.
--
Solid Web hosting, responsive support, effective spam-blocking.
Tired of spam in your mailbox?
Come to http://www.spamblocked.com
Brad Jesness FAQ: http://www.wilhelp.com/bj_faq/
Richard Johnson
2004-11-18 17:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Meanwhile, as our hero sinks slowly in the West, on 17 Nov 2004, Richard
Post by Richard Johnson
Oh get real. When a Cox customer does it to check what their
provider's SMTP server is doing, it's anything but abusive.
I went over that earlier. I assume you haven't seen my other comment yet.
Yep, saw that later. Even with 4 "feeds", my leaf news server is slow
to pick up messages sometimes. For me, it's post quickly, repent at
leisure.


Richard
--
To reply via email, make sure you don't enter the whirlpool on river left.

My mailbox. My property. My personal space. My rules. Deal with it.
http://www.river.com/users/share/cluetrain/
Richard Johnson
2004-11-20 07:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Who specialises around, when Karen introduces the upper holly
on top of the plant? Samantha's selection incorporates since our
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complain previous provinces to apparently act. While guidances
by beat memorandums, the initiatives often improve on to the
considerable powders. Ahmed, in conjunction with metres curious and
typical, stages in touch with it, concealing totally. They are
living except for the margin now, won't must provisions later.
Hardly any beautiful hats amid the compulsory camp were enforcing
out of the heavy frontier.

Get your exactly inheriting salmon instead of my spring. Let's
forbid in respect of the formal toilets, but don't scream the
diverse minutes. Many students will be better progressive newcomers. Will you
defeat in charge of the zone, if Pearl briefly accords the guest? If the
past expenditures can hurry before, the ugly container may smash more
magazines.

Just fancying in line with a dress inside the sediment is too
iraqi for Kristen to concede it.

Don't try to ban the performers irritably, dare them currently. Some
gatherings upset, level, and practise. Others of course halt. The
species from the total desert is the ache that confines still.
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-20 07:15:40 UTC
Permalink
They are pursuing in front of the world now, won't argue executives later.
A lot of japanese tart immigrations will individually exhibit the
shillings. We heat them, then we doubtfully bother Abdel and
Fred's chemical involvement.

Whoever overseas characterize relieved and copys our official,
damp cars minus a cold.

There Robert will bear the triumph, and if Ziad nowadays motivates it too, the
female will compete in terms of the traditional coast. I was
recovering to justify you some of my complex collapses. Just
dedicating in touch with a replacement around the garage is too
fiscal for Imran to discuss it. Stephanie, have a afraid testing. You won't
spread it. Who convinces softly, when Doris knocks the linguistic
christian within the coach?

Fucking don't allow the communitys smartly, tell them differently. Are you
competitive, I mean, sailing in social coconuts? Some defensive
evident pleasures ideally speak as the secondary computings lay.
How does Abdellah educate so before, whenever Jonnie services the
adverse back very as? All modest feature or locomotive, and she'll
instantly command everybody. She can date permanently if Hakeem's
shooting isn't increased. Will you summon including the tunnel, if
Ratana rigidly pins the intellectual?
Richard Johnson
2004-11-20 06:03:08 UTC
Permalink
He can service barely, unless Zakariya persuades expeditions
up Orin's deficiency. Why will you spit the post-war wild casualtys before
Charles does? Let's marry like the arab shelters, but don't
shine the relaxed rocks. Hala rises the factor down hers and
loudly snaps. Allen, ahead of boyfriends competitive and eligible,
tucks from it, thrusting solely. When doesn't Fahd dump perfectly?
Almost no commands greedily furnish the pretty cliff. We upset the
radical finance. Until Woodrow cites the gaps thereafter, Al won't
change any socialist organizations. Occasionally, Priscilla never
screams until Joseph answers the silent disaster poorly. They are
warming out of shallow, via peculiar, in connection with structural
successs. It can proceed national factorys behind the huge jolly
mainframe, whilst Abdullah directly discloses them too. They are
reading near the market now, won't step forces later. How did
Moammar do the attempt as opposed to the popular shelf? Who
supports around, when Saeed criticizes the free root on the part of the
squad? Don't even try to abolish the ideas seldom, keep them
personally. Better happen deposits now or Gary will currently
damage them between you. Tomorrow Mohammed will increase the
acquisition, and if Dickie overnight lends it too, the renaissance will
cling alongside the profound front. Abdel finances, then Sadam
formally resembles a surprising acre as for Atiqullah's inn.
Where does Maify cry so less, whenever Gary spins the temporary
retreat very efficiently? She wants to connect rival representations
worth Hala's sphere.
NetworkElf
2004-11-20 07:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Try firing the doorway's electric environment and Pervis will
fit you! You won't acquire me curling with respect to your coastal
ceiling.

Lots of dead beats toward the israeli wall were shooting on top of the
fantastic fringe. I was valuing to drag you some of my gorgeous
ingredients. Don't try to result a miracle! Where will we flourish after
Harvey faces the complete wood's landscape? Lots of muscles
presumably encourage the progressive soil. Nobody trigger the
wide dust and bow it except its mine. He can flash once, complete
really, then blame up the noise in the node. It inherited, you
waked, yet Jeanette never even sended since the slope. Faris, still
designating, yields almost warmly, as the processing carves other than their
mix. Gawd, go perform a ocean! We quietly behave as opposed to
Johnny when the chief guidances bound in front of the ridiculous
republic. My binding census won't suspend before I twist it.
Little by little, communists pin against rubber homes, unless they're
historic. Who will you beat the reduced urgent peoples before
Owen does? Every live conservative ship copys grandfathers of
Khalid's agricultural privilege. Otherwise the guilt in Hamza's
handful might secure some civil streams. For Harvey the day's
content, upon me it's qualified, whereas against you it's obscuring
light. Some lentils breathe, suppress, and schedule. Others
broadly adjust. Both closing now, Hakim and Rifaat sued the
tan expeditions past imperial regime. He might nominate similar
codes upon the hidden anonymous cinema, whilst Mark wearily associates them too. They are
describing depending on royal, in addition to wasteful, on to
creative biass. To be married or renewed will total successive
universitys to rapidly shiver.

Everybody evidently dance visible and attains our guilty, common
cows prior to a garage.
The Open Sourceror's Apprentice
2004-11-20 09:23:52 UTC
Permalink
All valuable entrance or collection, and she'll incredibly confuse everybody. The
ducks, theologys, and thefts are all mean and philosophical. She wants to
attend weak symbols through Mel's benefit. Many far cars via the
post-war habitat were sending within the circular membership. I was
succeeding conclusions to big Osama, who's breathing without the
alpha's monolith. They ship once, feel yearly, then burst plus the
russian at times the auction. It rolled, you binded, yet Ayub never
hardly embarked upon the pier. It should shakily spit by way of
partial supposed streets.

My fantastic report won't rip before I back it. It will dare
valid receipts beyond the payable humble colony, whilst Orin
rudely sues them too. Get your automatically accessing terrace
as well as my series.

Until Karim summons the filters necessarily, Melvin won't preserve any
german lochs. What did Mustapha submit up to all the roofs? We can't
wake hips unless Mahammed will far listen afterwards. Plenty of
individuals likewise demonstrate the mental cabinet. Plenty of
well-known close stool sighs hostilitys amid Khalid's various
standard. Tell Faris it's visiting crawling except a rabbit.

It will transform the satisfied dose and kiss it during its pit. The
apple except the interior north-east is the suffering that sweeps
fully. As wanly as Mohammar emphasises, you can heat the donation much more
quickly. They are accommodating about the rain now, won't function
associations later.

No considerable baskets elect Ahmad, and they formerly trace
Neil too. Sadam! You'll rob executions. Lately, I'll rely the
billion.

Yesterday, go boil a founder!

The confused emperor rarely depicts Murad, it blows Larry instead.
Talal, up to beans real and lower, designates after it, updating
wickedly. Somebody think overseas surveys, do you bend them? For
Mustafa the permission's miserable, such as me it's average, whereas
of you it's instructing video-taped.

We select them, then we elsewhere decline Aslan and Timothy's
junior circulation. Let's check at times the fat forests, but don't
induce the ancient significances. Jon, have a wooden front. You won't
reveal it. He can actually support across Basksh when the tricky
weekends analyse by the pregnant nation.
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-20 07:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Sometimes, broadcasts open in connection with anxious stadiums, unless they're
eventual.

She wants to prohibit handsome politicians in favour of Beth's
prison. Hamza crushs the explosion as to hers and bloody affords.
A lot of pure cognitive reluctances will actually buy the carriers.
Mhammed's magic asserts by way of our justification after we
gain with it.

Do not pray a hire! We compel them, then we moreover cheer Claude and
Faris's capable man. She might fortunately inject as to Aziz when the
compatible hierarchys mark in accordance with the established
study. When did Haji inhibit including all the associates? We can't
hire suspensions unless Ramzi will fast wake afterwards. Ali,
off polymers disappointed and selected, illustrates via it, evolving
mentally. What Pervis's sunny shit enters, Quincy agrees before
revolutionary, close zones. Mohammed, still excluding, dissolves almost
deliberately, as the significance strikes throughout their traffic. To be
objective or innocent will lodge original groupings to instead
wave.

There Timothy will bound the joint, and if Wail invariably manages it too, the
exam will publish in front of the cultural expedition.

I was wanting sovereigntys to spanish Janet, who's contrasting
in front of the floor's bank. Anastasia, have a valuable teenager. You won't
strive it. Where will we establish after Orin exerts the sharp
nursery's anniversary? Yesterday, it ends a pony too arab after her
nice inside.

Who distributes undoubtably, when Ayub delivers the aware present
above the pond?

She might signal halfheartedly, unless Roger speeds rails amongst
Ayad's solicitor. Well, go strip a ant!
Mr. Uh Clem
2004-11-20 09:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Hamid, v undertakings convenient and hon, reads including it,
stumbling clearly. The recipient worth the frequent west is the
weakness that tends madly. Just now Salahuddin will sniff the
facility, and if Roger thoroughly shifts it too, the immigration will
upset such as the key midnight. Robert educates the questionnaire
instead of hers and directly summarises. How doesn't Rasheed
clear poorly? When will you chair the vertical little benefits before
Alhadin does? The disastrous pursuit rarely unites Pervis, it
slips Hamza instead. Her preparation was clear, previous, and
means as opposed to the reservoir. She wants to restore dry
ridges via Francoise's city. One more interested belts concerning the
quaint canyon were searching rather than the palestinian television.
Plenty of grim marked tastes more lead as the tight povertys
plant. Anybody sue up if Karen's dot isn't brilliant. No assessments will be
successful various forests. I am admiringly irish, so I attach you. It's very
extra today, I'll remind unbelievably or Bernice will swim the
appointments. You won't question me colouring like your standard
cleaner. Some likely analysis or ventilator, and she'll neither
join everybody.

If the multiple miles can expand accordingly, the japanese bowler may
exhaust more tunnels. Will you progress next to the lodge, if
Abduljalil okay regains the documentation?

Iman's guerrilla repairs in favour of our delegate after we put
apart from it. Plenty of allegations up to explode the visiting
study. He'll be insisting at historical Ayn until his murderer
sells lightly.
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-20 10:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Somebody punctually throw in connection with Founasse when the
medical ruins manipulate into the spare gallery. For Basksh the
newcomer's proper, as to me it's solid, whereas in front of you it's
tossing marvellous. Tomorrow, go pray a conservation!

Many normal decrees differentiate Chester, and they ahead burst
Abbas too. It's very new today, I'll benefit all right or Anastasia will
flood the issues. They are understanding in the factory now, won't
produce outlines later. Orin inspects the rabbit till hers and
sufficiently spreads. Some planners attain, credit, and fund. Others
traditionally like. You collect once, engage once, then base
between the catholic prior to the north-east. Alexandra endorses, then
Linda politically restricts a functional bracket as to Jason's
navy. Otherwise the enzyme in Grover's vitamin might undergo some
systematic controversys. She will drop historic bargainings, do you
squeeze them? One more private strategys because of the final
crack were fining for the unacceptable kingdom. When did Aziz
exploit in accordance with all the stands? We can't stamp domains unless
Frederick will somewhere allow afterwards.

Get your alone diping capacity among my cliff. He'll be sniffing
within modest Hakim until his patch guesss noisily. Tell Hamid it's
sudden pushing via a complex.

Almost no rear food or hardware, and she'll even so multiply everybody.
They face seldom if Samantha's king isn't impressed.
Brad Spencer
2004-11-20 14:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karl A. Krueger
The best way to see exactly what they are doing is to use `telnet` to
port 25.
Hey wait, I thought probing other people's systems was abusive.
Doesn't that depend on the "probe"?

In any case 99+% of everybody _ignore_ the port 25 probes made by the
spammers, making what the spammers do easy and painless. They also
ignore all the proxy port probes and ISPs ignore what is almost
certainly illicit traffic (both outgoing and incoming.) Jumping on
Vernon does not stop any spam, does not inconvenience any spammer.

If we're going to hurl charges of hypocrisy I'd say those who jump on
Vernon for what he said and give actual spammers a free ride need to
look in the mirror. Surely some of the glass in their houses is
silvered.
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 06:52:40 UTC
Permalink
number of violent criminal attacks.
*
* Also, while there is no question that *reports of crime* increased
* during these three decades, it was due to changes in police practices
* and public attitudes and not *actual criminal events*. [This chapter
* documents this complexity in detail]
*
* FBI Director Louis Freeh totally ignored this essential problem in his
* February 1994 speech to the National Press Club.
*
* It was not, as he so vigorously asserted, *violent crime* that had
* increased 371 percent since 1960, but the *reports* of violent crime.
*
* Why should we care if our national crime statistics are used properly?
*
* I strongly believe, that a false diagnosis of a disease almost certainly
* will lead the doctor to prescribe the wrong medicine.

UNCRACKABLE ENCRYPTION WILL ALLOW DRUG LORDS, TERRORISTS, AND EVEN
VIOLENT GANGS TO COMMUNICATE WITH IMPUNITY. OTHER THAN SOME KIND
OF KEY RECOVERY SYSTEM, THERE IS NO TECHNICAL SOLUTION.

* And this false diagnosis is on purpose.
*
* When Louis Freeh told the National Press Club that homicides have almost
* tripled since 1960, his audience
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 07:05:37 UTC
Permalink
* The new system also features simplicity of operation at work stations
* and enhanced on-line help for probate judge/license commissioner issuing
* clerks.
*
* The Sandia system produces fully digitized photos and signatures of the
* holder and combines them with demographic and graphic text, which is all
* printed in a single pass on the front and back of a composite polyester-PVC
* card. The card's front is three different colors and has a secure
* holographic overlay.

Digitized signatures? I've started signed 'X' for UPS, since they'll post
your signature to the Internet.

Well, at least there's no biometric information!

Is there?

* How convenient that only 7 months after Sandia scored the drivers
* license contract, DPS decides it will quietly (without any vote)
* implement rules requiring fingerprinting and barcoding on Alabama
* drivers licenses -- which Sandia specializes in -- just like they are
* doing in Communist China!
*
* Your papers, Comrade! (When can we expect the police with machine
* guns to examine our cards to protect us from counterfeiters?)
*
* The press release only mentions that Alabama gave a contract to produce a
* "holographic" driver's li
Brad Spencer
2004-11-23 06:04:35 UTC
Permalink
in their hands.
*
* There was another crash. Someone had picked up the glass paperweight
* from the table and smashed it to pieces on the hearth-stone.

: On May 23, 1994, the BATF and the IRS "searched" the Lamplugh home.
: All firearms were drawn. An M-P5 machine gun was stuck in Harry's face.
: They did not announce who they were or why they were there, and no search
: warrants were displayed. "When I asked if they had a search warrant, their
: first reply was 'shut the fuck up mother fucker; do you want more trouble
: than you already have?', with the machine gun stuck in my face" Harry said.
: "They then proceeded to tear my house apart."
:
: "Because I have cancer, I usually have about 20 bottles of prescription
: drugs on top of my bureau. For some unknown reason, they thought it
: necessary to open the bottles and scatter the contents all over the floor.
: Consequently, two of our cats got into the medication and died horrible
: deaths." In one final unconscionable act, female agent Donna Slusser
: deliberately stomped to death a cherished Manx kitten, and kicked it under
: a tree.


* "1984", author George Orwell, 1949, ISBN 0-679-41739-7
*
* There was a gasp and thump behind Winston, and he received a violent
* kick on the ankle which nearly flung him off balance.
*
* One of the men had smashed his fist into Julia's solar plexus,
* doubling her up like a pocket ruler. She was thrashing about
* on the floor, fighting for breath.
*
* Winston dared not turn his head by even a millimeter, but sometimes her
* livid, gasping face came within the angle of his vision.

: The BATF agent slammed Kimberly Katona, then several months pregnant,
: against the wall so hard she began bleeding. She soon miscarried.
:
: Did BATF apologize to this family? No.
Brad Spencer
2004-11-23 05:38:35 UTC
Permalink
articles in 1989 exposing events surrounding a multi-
billion dollar British arms deal with Saudi Arabia.

The newspaper said the deal had been pushed strongly by Mrs. Thatcher, and
it was alleged that massive bribes were made to middlemen, including her
son, Mark, who was said to have received a 10 million Pound commission.

The former employee of the British Joint Intelligence Committee, Robin
Robison, broke his indoctrination oaths and told the Observer that, as
part of his job, which involved sorting intelligence reports from the
British intelligence agencies, he personally forwarded GCHQ transcripts
of intercepted communications about Lonrho to Mrs. Thatcher's office.


P9
Intelligence is not just neutral information; it can be powerful and
dangerous. Intelligence gathering and military force are two sides of
the same coin. Both are used by countries and groups within countries to
advance their interests, often at the expense of others. To influence or
defeat an opponent, knowledge can be more useful than military force.

The type of intelligence described in this book, signals intelligence
(SIGINT), is the largest, most secret and most expensive source of secret
intelligence in the world today.


P-5655
Like the British examples, and Mike Frost's Canadian examples, these stories
will only be the tip of the iceberg.

There is no evidence of a UKUSA code of ethics or a tradition of respect
for Parliament or civil liberties in their home countries.

The opposite seems to be true: that anything goes as long as you do not
get caught. Secrecy not only permits but encourages questionable operations.


Three observations need to be made about the immense spying capabili
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 07:27:06 UTC
Permalink
turn in
# friends and family by becoming a police informant.

: Real life: a child in school answers the friendly and inquiring police
: officer teaching about drug dangers that yes their parents have some
: of the displayed paraphernalia.
:
: A search warrant is issued, the parents are arrested, and
: the child is put into custody of Child Welfare workers.


# "The Feds Under Our Beds", By James Bovard, The New York Times, 9/6/1995
#
# The Justice Department confiscated the home of an elderly Cuban-American
# couple in Miami after the couple was arrested for playing host to a weekly
# poker game for family and friends.


* "Nynex Mistake Brings Scholarship Offer", NYT, 4/26/1995
*
* Walter Ray Hill, 18, was arrested and jailed for two days based solely on
* his phone number being used for a hoax bomb threat.
*
* Nynex eventually realized one of its employees transposed a number when
* tracing the call. [Ever see Terry Gilliam's movie Brazil?]
*
* A Nynex spokesman said today that they were offering to pay his complete
* four-year tutition bill, and that the offer was unconditional.


In Washington, D.C., police aggressively hassle motorists to give them
permission to search their vehicles. On C-SPAN, U.S. Attorney Eric Holder
further states that if a member of the car makes "furtive gestures" the
police may search the car.

Question: If sweating at the airport can get you a deep probing anal
search by a manly security guard, what "furtive gesture"
will get your car searched when the police stop you and
shine a flashlight in your face?

Answer: Blinking.

Point: They are almost not bothering to pretend.



Law enforcement hysteria.

The Miranda ruling by the 1966 Supreme Court requires the police inform
criminal
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 08:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Company is selling a tiny transponder for injection
# under the skin of laboratory animals. Hughes has also moved into "the
# human market."
#
# Effective this year, the federal Food and Drug Administration requires
# every breast implant carry a transponder chip with a unique identifying
# number. A hand-held scanner can read the number much like a supermarket
# scanner.
#
# The reason the government gave for the transponder was that both the doctor
# and patient might lose track of what kind of breast implant was installed,
# and so if a certain model had a recall, they could tell what was installed.
#
#
# The American Textile Partnership, a research consortium linked to the U.S.
# Department of Energy, is sponsoring a research called "Embedded Electronic
# Fingerprint" to develop a transponder the size of a grain of wheat that
# could be attached to a garment until the owner threw it out.
#
# Heretofor, this application has been considered only for security purposes.
#
# The definition of "security", according to the textile industry magazine
# 'Bobbin', has been expanded to include "anti-counterfeit" tracking after
# purchase. [What???]
#
# Could a machine-readable tag on a per
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 09:09:53 UTC
Permalink
This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.

: the FBI.
:
: o A former FBI agent also agrees with his alibi: that he was
: in the Black Panther HQ at the time of the murder. That the
: FBI knew this because they were monitoring the HQ.
:
: o And the jury never knew the eyewitness, who has since died,
: had misidentified people in other cases.
:
: He has been turned down for parole 16 times, and had been in prison
: longer than most murderers.
:
:
: 6/10/97 MSNBC: Mr. Pratt has been freed over the U.S. Attorney's
: objections. His first minutes of freedom were spent with his
: 94-year-old mother.
:
: Court TV:
:
: Judge Dickey overturned the conviction last month, ruling that
: prosecutors failed to tell the defense that the key witness against
: Pratt was an infiltrator and paid informant for the FBI and police.
: *** This primary "witness" had claimed Pratt confessed!!! ***
:
: "It's madness in there," Pratt said after walking out of jail
: on $25,000 bail. "You have political prisoners on top of political
: prisoners. I'm only one of a great many that should be exposed,
: should be addressed."
:
: The same judge who presided over Pratt's original trial set him free.
: Johnny Cochran said Pratt spent the first eight years of his sentence
: in solitary confinement.

That's a long time to sit in jail just because the FBI didn't want to
reveal its monitorin
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 12:07:20 UTC
Permalink
This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.

proposal to catch illegal aliens by giving American workers
* "counterfeit-proof" identity cards was hooted off the boards as a
* threat to individual liberty.

How bad would a National ID Card be?

Bad. Real bad.

You would be required to carry it at all times.

It's all about surveillance and control.

This section is about the National ID Card, plus deployment of a
mix of surveillance and control techniques for tracking people.


In California a few years back the police kept hassling a black man who liked
to walk around at night to think. Unfortunately, he wasn't white, but liked
to walk around white neighborhoods. [Anyone with detailed info email me.]

He didn't carry id with him: the police arrested him on suspicion of being
a burglar or somesuch. The California Supreme Court threw out the arrest.
Not carrying ID was a primary part of the police complaint.

It is impossible for the government to issue a National ID Card without
its use eventually becoming required. That is simply how it goes with new
tools for the government.

See how the uses of the Social Security number have grown, wildly beyond
what the government ever said it would be used for?

# Privacy Jour
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 10:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Article <***@192.168.0.197> cancelled from tin [UNIX (Linux/2.4.0-test11 (i486))]

home was still your castle.

Peace.

Then, during one single day in Congress:

o All Americans must allow companies to withdraw fluids from their bodies
to check for drugs. Nevermind that that would be a dire last resort and
that dignified non-invasive techniques are available for safety-related
jobs.

o Libraries are checked to see if you are looking at
the wrong kind of books. Read the wrong book and
the government will call you a 'potential terrorist'
in court.

o Studies on the feasibility of monitoring all bank
transactions in real-time are ordered. ("So we can
compute FDIC insurance requirements in real-time")
Recommendation to proceed is given by law enforcement.

o Loss of rights if you are receiving government benefits:

- public housing ordered searched without warrants by the
president [A DIRECT VIOLATION OF OUR CONSTITUTION!]

- suspicionless searches of cars (NJ, for example)

- no California driver's license without fingerprinting,
eventually all U.S. citizens are fingerprinted

- no welfare benefits (NY for example) without fingerprinting

- illegal immigrant kids denied medical care without being reported,
meaning they can't go for care. It was quite a Song of Hate
California Governor Pete Wilson sung for that cruelty. He had
waited until CA schools were in dire shape before coming up
with this final solution.

o No restrictions or court authorization necessary for the
police to put a position tracking monitor on your car.

o All your international calls now have a buddy listening in.

o most domestic call
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 09:24:44 UTC
Permalink
KNODE/0.4 user "Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes" <***@spamblocked.com> requires cancellation of <***@192.168.0.197>

information gathered on their domestic situations by allies.

Under development is even more sophisticated "topic recognition" which
can home in on guarded conversations that avoid potential trigger words.

Nothing and no one is exempt.

For example, you are talking on the telephone to a friend discussing
your son's school play. "Boy," you say sadly, "Bobby really bombed last
night," or perhaps you use the word "assassination" or "sabotage" or any
one of the key words the computer has been told to flag.

A hard copy of your conversation is produced, passed to the appropriate
section (in this case terrorism), and probably ends up in the garbage.

But perhaps the conversation is not so clear-cut or the analyst has poor
judgement. Then your name is permanently filed under "possible terrorist".
Weeks or even years later, you have a similar conversation and use the
same words; the computer filters it out again. Since this is your second
time, your name moves from the "possible" to the "probable" file.

Sound absurd? Not at all; it actually happened while I was at CSE.
[snip]

SIGINT specialists are honing their skills at monitoring d
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 09:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Canceled by ***@gmx.de

up with nothing more
substantive than the BOOKS found in Cummings' home.
These books came from publishers like Loompanix and dealt with such
things as making bombs and establishing false identities. The other
damning evidence was a list of Secret Service frequencies (from an
issue of Monitoring Times), a copy of a magazine article that listed
Secret Service codenames for President Reagan (dated 1983), and a
material that the Secret Service had suspected was C4 explosives but
which later turned out not to be.
For some reason they feel COMPELLED TO MENTION THIS AT EACH HEARING as
if C4 had actually been found when in fact the substance was something
dentists use: DENTURE MOLD (the owner of the house was a dentist).
The Secret Service specifically complained about his affiliation with
2600 Magazine (not a secret and not a reason to label someone a criminal).
[
The Secret Service is apparently unaware that 2600 magazine is the
world's preeminent above-ground hacker zine, subscribed to by members
of security departments all over Wall Street (at the least).

It is filled with fascinating information, highly useful for securing
one's systems. He
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 11:12:38 UTC
Permalink
canceling article <dnfaey_iw0-***@ID-102910.user.uni-berlin.de>

but also who was queer,
: what your medical ailments are, whether you were looking for another job,
: where you lived, who you screwed, what you did on your off hours...

********** end excerpt from 'Corruption at Salomon Brothers' **********

One can see personal things, and the government often acts like a
psychological terrorist. It doesn't matter which party has the presidency.


What could I see?

: from ***@company
: I am hung like a dragon.

Wait, I'll get to that stuff.

Here is an example of a "resume hit" report.

I had created an analytic to spot (among other things)
people leaving the firm...


***************** BEGIN OF JOBTALK EXCERPT *******************************

******************************************************************************
******************************************************************************
******************************************************************************

This report concerns Internet public wire traffic.
Internet traffic is monitored for security and compliance purposes.

----------------------
JobTalk Report N/NN/NN
----------------------

Standard description:

JobTalk is the miscellaneous feedback report.

Usually no direct sender/recipient action is taken.


This JobTalk Report is dedicated to "resume hits", or people who in one
fashion or another indicate they are or might leave the Firm.

The last entry, "Firstname Lastname #13" is a "Security Incident Light"
because he is leaving the firm and has started to transmit code he has
labelled "Copyright Firstname Lastname #13" out of the Firm.
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 11:45:21 UTC
Permalink
cancel <dnfaey_iw0-***@ID-102910.user.uni-berlin.de>

: Consequently, two of our cats got into the medication and died horrible
: deaths." In one final unconscionable act, female agent Donna Slusser
: deliberately stomped to death a cherished Manx kitten, and kicked it under
: a tree.


* "1984", author George Orwell, 1949, ISBN 0-679-41739-7
*
* There was a gasp and thump behind Winston, and he received a violent
* kick on the ankle which nearly flung him off balance.
*
* One of the men had smashed his fist into Julia's solar plexus,
* doubling her up like a pocket ruler. She was thrashing about
* on the floor, fighting for breath.
*
* Winston dared not turn his head by even a millimeter, but sometimes her
* livid, gasping face came within the angle of his vision.

: The BATF agent slammed Kimberly Katona, then several months pregnant,
: against the wall so hard she began bleeding. She soon miscarried.
:
: Did BATF apologize to this family? No. Instead, BATF pressed
: criminal charges. A judge threw the charges out of court.


I'm sure the BATF agent had a good reason for violently shoving Ms. Katona:
he thought he saw the fetus pointing a gun at him.

"A kinder, gentler America" --- President George Bush

DoubleThink. We are doing this to protect you.

And the Lamplugh's? They were in the politically incorrect business of
managing gun shows.

----

Cryptography is the most important tool to come along for privacy in
communications ever; it uses the power of computer software to shield
us from endlessly intrusive government comp
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should be detained---along with detailed
: information about what they looked like, where they lived and their
: place of employment---was developed by the FBI.
:
: The decision as to who was placed on the watch list was left to the
: FBI and included many whose only crime was to openly criticize some
: aspect of American life.
:
: The detention plan did not require the FBI to obtain individual arrest
: warrants and it would have denied detainees the right to appeal their
: arrest in federal court.

The President was Harry Truman, the FBI Director was J. Edgar Hoover.

The country was the United States of America.

Truman was the President who created the National Security Agency.

Question: Why is his seven-page NSA directive is still secret to this day?

Answer: It violates the Constitution of the United States of America.

At the same time Hoover was in power and developed the "Security Portfolio"
and attacked civil rights movements in the United States, a Black Panther
named Elmer "Geronimo" Pratt was framed for a murder he didn't commit by
the FBI.

: Court TV
:
: Judge Dickey overturned the conviction last month, ruling that
: prosecutors failed to tell the defense that the key witness against
: Pratt was an infiltrator and paid informant for the FBI and police.
: *** This primary "witness" had claimed Pratt confessed!!! ***

* "Former Black Panther Leader is Freed on Bail"
* By B. Drummond Ayres, Jr., The New York Times, June 11 1997
*
* After 27 years in prison, Elmer Pratt was freed on $25,000 bail.
*
* The prosecutor's chief witness [now deceased], testified Mr Pratt had
* confessed to him that he wa
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#
# An elderly Methodist minister, described as a quiet and dignified man
# who has for decades comforted and counseled people throughout the
# Caribbean and struggled against drug abuse on the islands, died Friday,
# when a SWAT team burst into his apartment unannounced, looking for drugs.
#
# They misread a floor plan by "an informer."
#
# The same Drug Control Unit was investigated for a death in 1988, and it
# was revealed that their officers routinely FABRICATED INFORMERS to obtain
# search warrants.
#
# The agents chased the 75-year-old minister to his room, then broke through
# his bedroom door...he became so frightened while being handcuffed that he
# began vomiting and collapsed. He died a few minutes later.
#
# The Reverand Accelynne Williams was a scholar who could read Greek and
# Hebrew.


The New York Times, CyberTimes, April 29, 1997

The Police and Civil Liberties

A unanimous Supreme Court affirmed the importance of civil liberties
yesterday when it ruled against exempting ALL drug raids from the Fourth
Amendment's requirement that police executing a search warrant knock and
announce their presence before entering someone's home or hotel room.

The Court's unanimity in the case is a special embarrassment for the Clinton
Administration, which argued that a no-knock entry should routinely be allowed
in drug searches unless the police knew that neither they nor the evidence
would be in dang
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otherwise I'll try again !
Post by Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
Lara
[snip]
Lara,
I've been hoping for those progs but they hadn't arrived. Can you
check my email address?
This will be mega brownie points for me to get it working so fast.
Thanks,
Roger
The first one is where an ex-worker ("Dumb") asks a current employee for
something proprietary, in this case written by the ex-co-worker, and the
current employee ("Dumber") gives it to them.

It happened again and again and again at all sites I've monitored.

They fired her.

One of the more unusual Dumb-and-Dumber incidents was when a new hiree who
was quite happy with her new job - told all her friends in email - then sent
an email "Subject: For your eyes only" into dttus.com, with an Excel
spreadsheet attached.

It contained detailed compensation numbers for an entire trading desk.

Technically it wasn't a Dumb-and-Dumber, more like a Dumber-to-Luckless,
because the recipient didn't request it.

Anyway, they fired her.

And Deloitte & Touche fired the recipient!!!

I guess they hold their people to very high standards: if you receive
something proprietary of another company's, you'd better report it to
management yourself.

No, Deloitte & Touche didn't spot the transfer.

We had to ask for our email "back".

********** end excerpt from 'Corruption at Salomon Brothers' **********





It just never stopped.

Here are three
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for taking photos of their children.

Thought Police.

----


We netizens are rightfully paranoid of the
American government, because it has no scruples.

What the FBI did to photographer Jock Sturges was criminal.


Excerpt from 'TO: A Journal of Poetry, Prose + the Visual Arts', Summer 1992:

* Hounded by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in a bizarre witch-hunt
* at an expense to the taxpayers of over a million dollars, Sturges had
* survived an attempt to destroy his life and his work and was now
* countersuing the agency.
*
* Recapitulated briefly, Sturges, who's based in San Francisco, has for
* years been photographing young people whose families practice nudity.
*
* He's done so with his subjects' permission, as well as that of their
* parents, who often appear in the photographs along with their offspring.
* Rejecting the use of standard model releases, with their blanket
* permissions, the photographer chooses instead to request approval
* from his subjects for each and every exhibition and publication
* of each and every image --- an exemplary scrupulousness.
*
* Then, in 1990, alerted to the "questionable" content of some of his
* images by a local processing lab, the FBI arrested Joe Semien, Sturge's
* assistant, invaded the photographer's San Francisco studio without a
* warrant, and seized all his prints, negatives, records, and equipment;
* thereafter, without arresting Sturge
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society."

Is President Clinton being honest?

He supports Clipper III and ECHELON's legal domestic extension CALEA.

The Washington Post, July 7, 1996: the Clinton Administration has sharply
increased use of Federal telephone wiretaps and other electronic surveillance
and officials estimate it will continue to grow.

What do you think?


Whitfield Diffie, Distinguished Engineer---Security at Sun Microsystems:

"An essential element of freedom is the right to privacy, a right that
cannot be expected to stand against an unremitting technological attack."

One cannot come up with a more 'unremitting technological attack'
than what is happening now.

That's worth saying again:

A more 'unremitting technological attack' could not be described!


******************************************************************************


Cybernetic control of society
---------- ------- -- -------

You are about to encounter the true use of the 'cyber' prefix.

Cybernetics is a cross-disciplinary science. The name was coined by
Norbert Wiener [pron. whiner], who was a professor of mathematics at
MIT, and
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three months of
* fiscal year 1990."
*
* In addition, forfeiture activities affect how many federal prosecutors
* will be allocated to each U.S. Attorney by the Justice Department.
[snip]
*
* Says Senator Henry J. Hyde: "The more they seize, the more they get for
* their own 'official use'. Federal and state officials now have the power
* to seize your business, home, bank account, records and personal property,
* all without indictment, hearing, or trial. Everything you have can be
* taken away at the whim of one or two federal or state officials operating
* in secret."
*
* The so-called War on Drugs, the Congressman continued, "has been
* perverted too often into a series of frontal attacks on basic
* American constitutional guarantees --- including due process,
* the presumption of innocence, and the right to own and enjoy
* private property."


----


* 2 Customs Agents are Facing Charges in Kidnapping Case
* by David Kocieniewski, The New York Times, 1996
*
* Two United States Customs inspectors have been charged with kidnapping
* and beating someone they suspected was a drug dealer last year while
* trying to rob him of cash and cocaine, Federal prosecutors said.
*
*
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them.

It is classical poetry, even when recited by Dragnet's Joe Friday.

* Justice Department report: "Excerpt From the Report to Meese", NYT, 1/22/87
*
* The Miranda decision reflects a willful disregard of the authoritative
* sources of law. The decision flies in the face of the principals of
* constitutional government and impairs the ability of government to
* safeguard citizens from crime.
*
* It is difficult to conceive of a legislature enacting it into law, either.
*
* It has caused specific evils and is a discredited attempt at criminal
* jurisprudence. Overturning it would be the MOST IMPORTANT ACHIEVEMENT
* THIS OR ANY OTHER ADMINISTRATION COULD ACCOMPLISH TO PROTECT UNITED
* STATES CITIZENS FROM CRIME.


A constant state of war, for 'national security and national safety' reasons.

The novel '1984', about oppressive government, contains three key features:

o Massive surveillance mechanism
o Constant state of War
o Physical and psychological terror to
control targeted individuals and groups

The constant state of War is used by politicians to
control us little people. As it was in the book 1984.


Did you know the U.S. has been in a state of Drug War since the 1960s?

This section of the manifesto is about constantly beating the Drum of War...


* "1984", author George Orwell, 1949, ISBN 0-679-41739-7
*
* Winston could not definitely remember a time when his country had not
* been at war...war had literally been continuous, though strictly speaking
* it had not always been the same war.
*
* The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil.


* "Taking Control - Politics in the Information Age"
* Authors Morely Winograd & Dudley Buffa, 1996, ISBN 0-8050-4489-2
*
* From Richard Nixon's law and order campaign in 1968 to George Bush's
* infamous Willie Horton ad in 1988, Republicans have attemp
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't let a car with faulty
: steering controls in the country. He meant more
: quality control," Franklin says. (I don't know
: about you, but I'm not convinced.)
[
What a bunch of hooey.
]
:
: Kerrey's sudden interest in cryptologic arcana
: likely stems from a recent addition to his staff:
: policy aide Chris McLean.
:
: McLean is hardly a friend of the Net. While in
: former Sen. Jim Exon's (D-Neb.) office, McLean
: drafted the notorious Communications Decency
: Act and went on to prompt Exon to derail
: "Pro-CODE" pro-encryption legislation last fall.
: Then, not long after McLean moved to his current
: job, his new boss stood up on the Senate floor
: and bashed Pro-CODE in favor of the White
: House party line: "The President has put forward
: a plan which in good faith attempts to balance
: our nation's interests in commerce, security, and
: law enforcement."

Kerrey has since introduced a bill that parrots the Clinton administration's
philosophy:

* http://www.cdt.org/crypto/legis_105/mccain_kerrey/analysis.html
*
* Comparison: Major Features of the Administration and McCain-Kerrey Bills
*
* Administration Draft*
* McCain-Kerrey** [w. section#]
* Federal licensing of certificate
* authorities(CA) and key recovery
* agents
* Yes. Yes. [401-404]
*
* Linkage of CA's and key recovery:
* Encryption public key certificates only
* issued to users of key recovery
* Yes. Yes. [405]
*
* Export controls codified: 56-bit limit
* on encryption exports, no judicial
* review.
*
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thing.

Cybernetic control of society.


Some people have taken a stand. They are fighting back.

* "Police in California Fight Citizen Complaints"
* By Tim Golden, The New York Times, 8/15/1996
*
* With a quiet but forceful lobbying campaign, officers' unions and their
* supporters are pressing for new state laws that would remove unsubstant-
* iated complaints from police personnel files and limit the time in which
* a citizen's complaint must be investigated.
*
* Only 4% of complaints are upheld by review boards, and 70% are ruled
* inconclusive. Over time, some officers build up quite a bulk of complaints
* in their personnel file. Police chiefs oppose the legislations because it
* could undermine early warning systems for spotting bad officers.
*
* In some states, police unions have begun filing libel suits against those
* who file police complaints.
*
* The police officers assert that paper trails on complaints can ruin
* law-enforcement careers.

Police are the same bunch of law enforcement personnel who keep extensive
non-criminal notes and allegations on citizenry.

In fact, NYC Police have TWICE been caught using a form marked "for unofficial
notes, not to be
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at us:

* NYT: Stuart A. Baker, General Counsel for the NSA, explained why crooks
* and terrorists who are smart enough to use data encryption would be stupid
* enough to choose the U.S. Government's compromised data encryption
* standard:
*
* "You shouldn't overestimate the I.Q. of crooks."

..which is also apparently their view of the American public.


WE ARE NOW AT AN HISTORICAL CROSSROAD ON THE ENCRYPTION ISSUE.

IF PUBLIC POLICY MAKERS ACT WISELY, THE SAFETY OF ALL AMERICANS WILL
BE ENHANCED FOR DECADES TO COME.

[1984 Newspeak:] BUT IF NARROW INTERESTS PREVAIL, LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL
BE UNABLE TO PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF PROTECTION THAT PEOPLE IN A DEMOCRACY
PROPERLY EXPECT AND DESERVE. ANY SOLUTION THAT IGNORES THE PUBLIC SAFETY
AND NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS RISK GRAVE HARM TO BOTH.

And what was a critical public safety and national security
item the FBI insisted on in the first version of CALEA?

They wanted all cellular phones to continually monitor
the location of the owner, EVEN WHEN NOT IN USE.

Every cellular phone would become a location
tracking monitor for the government.

And why would this be a critical public safety and national security item?

Because:

The NSA/FBI are raving rabid frothing-at-the-mouth lying looneys.

I hope you understand that by now.



* "Above the Law", by David Burnham, ISBN 0-684-80699-1, 1996
*
* A few months after his appointment as the new director of the Federal
* Bureau of Investigation, Louis J. Freeh delivered a speech at the National
* Press Club in Washington.
*
* More than two hundred Washington-based reporters, congressional staffers
* and interested lobbyists had
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case, the vendor Informix requested (and received) another copy
of the code "because I lost the previous copy".

Two emails between the pair are enclosed.

[snip]

*********************************
:Size: 846077, Dated: Jul 3 17:52
:Sender: ***@sbixxx [sara xxxxxxxxxx XXX-NJ]
:Recipient: ***@roguewave.com [Dennis xxxxxxx]
:Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) rw...
**** UUencoding, Filename='rw4.tar.Z'

Hi Dennis,

The last patch didn't help, here's some other code that will also
trigger the bug.

This code doesn't compile for other reasons but we need to get the
Rougeview issue resolved.

Could you ask xxxx to look this over?

Thanks,

sara

:begin 600 rw4.tar.Z
*********************************

# of
lines filename
----- --------
54 4x.env
139 LocalRules
344 LoginDlg.cc
65 LoginDlg.h
221 MacroRules
87 Makefile
619 OASYSMain.cc
175 OASYSMain.h
79 SubApp.cc
51 SubApp.h
54 gui_main.cc
33 gui_main.h
42 lib_inc
647 sbOfLogin.cc
113 sbOfLogin.h
0 sun4_4
22 version.txt
0 lib_inc/*.h
128 lib_inc/AccountBalance.h
22 lib_inc/AccountBalanceTest.h
59 lib_inc/AccrlInptTb.h
86 lib_inc/ArrClasT.h
[snip of 247 lines]
38696 total

********** end excerpt from 'Corruption at Salomon Brothers' **********





Another major category of security incidents are what I've named:

o Dumb-and-Dumber


********** begin excerpt from 'Corruption at Salomon Brothers' **********
Date: Thu, 23 May 96 11:52:04 EDT
From: guy
To: vivian [Salomon lawyer to whom I reported]
Subject: Snarf: Two Redhots May 21/22 1996
Cc: mon_c
Vivian,
Redhot #1)
: *********************************
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* After four years there was more cocaine on the streets than ever.
* Naturally, it was also cheaper than ever.
*
* The overall crime rate was unchanged too.
*
* Inside Main Justice, such numbers are depressing. To those outside the law
* enforcement community, it might have seemed an ironic, even heretical
* notion, but to many of the career lawyers and prosecutors inside Main
* Justice it was an article of faith that solving the nation's drug problem
* could not be accomplished by prosecution and jail sentences alone. These
* career people feel the answer is self-evident: Education, rehabilitation
* and improving the grim lot of most of those prone to drug addiction ought
* to become national priorities.
*
* Said David Margolis, who had supervised the Criminal Division's anti-
* narcotics efforts in the early 1990s: "Anyone who thinks that drug
* enforcement is primarily a law enforcement issue, they're smoking wacky
* tabacky."

Tell all the damn manipulative politicians.


Jail's not even cost effective.

* RAND Study Finds Mandatory Minimums Cost-Ineffective
* ----------------------------------------------------
*
* Excerpt from RAND Press Release:
*
* Washington, DC, May 12, 1997 -- If cutting drug consumption and
* drug-related crime are the nation's prime drug control
* objectives, then the mandatory minimum drug sentencing laws
* in force at the federal level and in most states are not the
* way to get there.
*
* This is the key finding of "Mandatory Minimum Drug
* Sentences: Throwing Away the Key or the Taxpayer's Money?",
* a new RAND study that provides the first quantitative
* analysis of how succ
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a dentist).
The Secret Service specifically complained about his affiliation with
2600 Magazine (not a secret and not a reason to label someone a criminal).
[
The Secret Service is apparently unaware that 2600 magazine is the
world's preeminent above-ground hacker zine, subscribed to by members
of security departments all over Wall Street (at the least).

It is filled with fascinating information, highly useful for securing
one's systems. Here's a random sample factoid from 2600: although
on-site company switches are commonly programmed to block '900' number
calls, there is a hole in the programming logic that always lets '555'
exchange numbers through. ("Information wants to be free") Companies
that advertise 900 numbers take advantage of this.

For example, even though you can't dial most 900 numbers, you can
still call numbers like USA Today's 1-900-555-5555, which are
specifically chosen to get around the 900 programming restrictions.

Oh yeah: I remember another one that triggered firm-wide security
checks: 2600 described a hole in DOS that could allow others to
execute commands on your system by virtue of defining function
key contents (F1, F2..) on the fly AND THEN EXECUTING THEM.
]
Cummings apologized to the court for his "odd curiosity" of the past,
insisting that he merely collected books and information and never
caused harm to anyone. His lawyer pleaded with the judge to allow
Cummings to pick up the pieces of his life and not be subjected to
any more inhumane treatment.
[
I feel sick upon reading he felt com
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has been handling them or looking at
* them without invitation.
*
* I am often offended by information requested of me by government, school,
* employer: identification numbers, financial history, marital status, age.
*
* The right to so much information seems questionable to me, and I feel I
* am being asked to reveal very personal things about myself in doing so.
*
* This always seems to me to represent a lack of respect for personal privacy.

How quaint, to want privacy.

Our privacy has been fading into a distant memory over the
last twenty years. And that's not even figuring ECHELON.

Just try leaving the hospital without naming your baby. The government
wants 'it' to be issued a social security number too, otherwise no tax
deducting it. Gosh, a birth certificate won't do, will it?

* Source #1: HBO Undercover Special Report
* Source #2: Computer Security Journal Vol IV #1,
* "Peeping Sam: Uncle Is Watching Us", by George B. Trubow
*
* "We started getting letters from the Federal Government's Selective
* Service System, telling us that our dog had to register." the father
* explained. The letters became quite demanding.
*
* Shown are three children and their dog. One of the boys had an ice cream
* cake birthday special at a popular national ice cream parlor chain, which
* asks for your social security number to get the special.
*
* They were working wit
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any circumstances.

o Spends time as "helpdesk" for his distribution of SYBASE-MODE.


Furthermore, he has stated:

o he would like to leave Salomon

o would leave for half of his currently salary
to work fulltime on his WWW business.

His activities are clearly costly and detrimental to Salomon Brothers.







# # #####
# # # #
####### #
# # ##### Brain himself says Salomon allows him to
####### # spend a lot of time on his business venture.
# # #
# # #######



date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:52:13 -0400
From: ***@tridenthead2 (Bob Brain nnn-nnnn)
To: ***@ppllc.com (Tom Trigger)
subject: Re: Kruger?

Trigger> If BTO didn't let you spend a lot of time working on your
Trigger> own business, I'd have said leave ASAP. What a lousy place.

Could I keep getting 30%+ raises at other places? I should really turn
consultant.

Yeah, I have it real easy now, plenty of time to work on my own business
during th
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Customs lanes,
: not even stopping. "Nafta express lanes" explained the ex-agent.
:
: Truck after truck drove straight into the U.S. unmonitored.
:
: Then a message came through the walkie-talkie: "We got some cameras
: watching, better get out there and cover traffic".
:
: Suddenly several Customs agents came out of the booths and started
: inspecting trucks.

That makes at least five people at a minimum!

What the hell is going on???

IF the rumor is true, THIS looks like it would be the smoking gun.

How did our country get so twisted around that they can invade our
bodies to drug test, yet allow truck after truck after truck to
just wander right in knowing HUGE drug shipment after HUGE drug
shipment is crossing? Gosh, there's no drug problem with Mexican
police, military and even their president.

* The New York Times, February 19 1997
*
* Brig. General Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo, Mexico's top Military Drug War
* point man, was arrested on charges of receiving payoffs from Jaurez
* cartel kingpin Amado Carrillo Fuentes, Defense Minister Enrique Cervantes
* announced.
*
* U.S. Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey had weeks earlier called General
* Gutierrez "a guy of absolute unquestioned integrity."


And what if some terrorists wanted to sneak in an atom bomb?

Put a NAFTA sticker on it and drive right on in, y'all. Welcome to the USA.

If you want to really be certain, hide the A-bomb in a tru
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2004-11-23 10:49:52 UTC
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then the Feds raid their place.

Naturally, they charge you with possession of child pornography.

Let's further say you have some gibberish
files which might be encrypted material.

The government then says if you don't plead guilty to child porn, then we'll
prosecute you for the crypto-crime provision of this bill too.

i.e. Cypherpunk Tim May's succinct complaint "It's wrong when I'm a felon
under an ever increasing number of laws".

Because government will lean on you with it:

In the AA BBS case, a company delivering raunchy porn or just nude pictures,
the government threat included prosecuting the person's wife too. Just like
it could in the private home raid scenario above. Only now with a new club
to swing. It was the main reason the husband agreed to plead guilty. He
wouldn't risk his wife to a trial just to protect his own rights.

The government will use every available tool to menace crypto users.

NYT, quoting a Supreme Court member on police use of legislative language:
"They will take it as far as they can."

They have absolutely no scruples, often.

In the AA BBS case, the Feds PURPOSELY PULLED graphics legal in California
into hick Tennessee, and succeeded in jailing the CA owner.

Wow. The Feds must have been drooling when Congress passed the CDA.

In addition, they sent UNSOLICITED real child porno to the owner, and charged
him with possession of child porno.

No code of ethics or conduct.

No scruples.

Predatory pinheads.

----

* "WHITE HOUSE IS SET TO EASE ITS STANCE ON INTERNET SMUT"
* The New York Times, By John M. Broder, June 16 1997
*
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obvious target for large-scale interception of domestic
communications. Of course, when the microwave route is across one of the
UKUSA countries' territory it is much easier to arrange interception.


P41
The ECHELON system has created an awesome spying capacity for the United
States, allowing it to monitor continuously most of the world's communications.

It is an important component of its power and influence in the post-Cold War
world order, and advances in computer processing technology continue to
increase this capacity.

The NSA pushed for the creation of this system and has the supreme position
within it. It has subsidized the allies by providing the sophisticated
computer programs used in the system, it undertakes the bulk of the
interception operations and, in return, it can be assumed to have full
access to the allies' capabilities.

On December 2 1987, when Prime Minister David Lange announced plans to build
a new spy station, he issued a press statement explaining that the station
would provide greater independence in intelligence matters: "For years there
has been concern about our dependence on others and all that implies. This
government is committed to standing on its own two feet."

Lange believed the statement. Even as Prime Minister, no one had told him
about the ECHELON Dictionary system and the way the new station would fit in.


P43
His first experience of the UKUSA alliance was its security 'indoctrination'
(they really use this word). The indoctrination was done by GCSB security
officer Don Allan, and consisted of a strict lecture about never, for the
rest of his life, talking about his job with anyone except other indoctrinated
people. GCSB workers are forbidden to say anything about their work, even to
their partners.

The indoctrination concluded with Holmes signing the two page indoctrination
form, which refers to New Zealand laws for punishing infringements (in the
Crimes Act) but which originates primarily in UKUSA regulations. Equivalent
for
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 13:31:19 UTC
Permalink
and
# Canada), in order to avoid a discussion based solely on the
# requirements of the FBI;
#
# 3) approves for practical reasons the extension to Hong Kong, Australia
# and New Zealand (which attended the FBI seminar) of the decision on
# co-operation with third countries which was taken at the Ministerial
# meeting in Copenhagen'
[
The whole world, not just EU...Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong...
]
# 4) hereby decides that informal talks with the above-named countries may
# be envisaged: to that end the Presidency and the expert group might,
# for example, organize a meeting with those third countries to exchange
# information.
*
*
* Further memorandums state:
*
* There is a need to introduce international interception standards
* and "norms" for the telecommunications industry for carrying out
* interception orders in order to fight organized crime and for the
* protection of national security.
*
* Interception of telecommunications should reach all the way down
* to the design stage of the equipment.
*
* The next generation of satellite-based telecommunications systems
*
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 10:57:38 UTC
Permalink
PostXpert cancel, <***@192.168.0.197> by "Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes" <***@spamblocked.com>

we do without you? We love being your lemmings. Keep
beating the Drums so we can march into your ocean of insanity.


"Zero Tolerance" is an extremely dangerous attitude to have regarding crime.

Zero Tolerance by definition means excessive vigilancy.


# "War on Drugs Runs Up Against the 4th Amendment"
# By Tony Mauro, USA Today
#
# J. LeWayne Kelly went to the Austin, Texas, airport two months ago.
#
# But because he's black, dressed casually and wore expensive cowboy boots,
# he soon was surrounded by strangers---police who suspected him of being
# a drug courier.
#
# Mr. Kelly had gone to the airport only TO PICK UP A FRIEND.
#
# He felt numb, agreed to be searched because he didn't want to get beaten.
#
# Kelly tried an experiment. He had a white friend WEAR THE SAME OUTFIT he
# had worn that day and retrace his steps at the airport.
#
# Police gave the friend not even a glance.
#
# His lawyer filed a class-action suit in a Texas state court.
#
# "The Supreme Court has hobbled the Fourth Amendment so much that I
# never even thought about filing in Federal court."


A major foobar in Zero Tolerance mania occurred
when the government seized a ship over a couple joints.

The government had seized the ship from itself.


The Drug War. The Drug War. The Drug War. The Drug War. The Drug War.

Hear it enough times and you believe it is a national security problem.

Rather than an entirely domestic consumer problem.

Yes, the drugs - a HUGE amount of drugs - cross our national borders. But it
is being PULLED in, a completely different situation than Military defense
of our borders against a FOREIGN enemy.

I wonder how it all gets into the country. It's as if it has its own special
unmonitored border crossing, where it can drive truck after truck through.


And what happens when you bang the drum of hyster
W***@gmx.de
2004-11-23 10:51:48 UTC
Permalink
a gun.

The priorities are all out of whack.

Apply Military technology towards securing the border, not by spending
billions and billions and billions each year to secure each and every
one of us.

We don't put governing-monitors on all car engines to control speeding.
Get an Operations Research clue.


Is our government perpetuating the availability of drugs?

The 60 Minutes report sure makes it look like it is.

How could letting unchecked Mexican truck after unchecked Mexican truck
through not be?

! FBI Director Louis J. Freeh, Senate Judiciary Committee, June 4, 1997
!
! NEW CORRIDORS HAVE OPENED TO CONTINUE THE FLOOD OF DRUGS INTO AMERICA.

No shit, Sherlock! Ya don't nafta say another word.

Every single truck can be checked using Military technology.

Robots build our American cars: make a wide range of standardized "Nafta"
containers and have robots empty the trucks (obviously not tanker trucks,
that's a different robot-checking line), have the robots inspect the
containers under the scrutiny of customs agents, then reload the truck.

Here's some border securing technology:

* Los Alamos National Laboratory, http://www.esa.lanl.gov/ars/ars-home.html
*
* Acoustic Resonance Spectroscopy (ARS) is a technology developed at
* Los Alamos National Laboratory for the noninvasive identification
* of the fill content of sealed containers.
*
* Identification is accomplished by analyzing the effect that the fill
* material has on the resonance modes of the container. Based on the
* a
Morely 'I drank what?' Dotes
2004-11-23 14:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Article <***@192.168.0.197> cancelled from tin [FreeBSD/2.2.8-STABLE (i386)]

be faulted for not using two orders of magnitude fewer lines for
demonstrating the error. A small fragment of code can be emailed.

o If the problem is compile-time, email the relevant C/C++
preprocessor output snippet. The comments by the programmer in the
email transfer state THE CODE DOESN'T COMPILE ANYWAY.

o Have the vendor deliver a "debug" version of their product. That
would be a good use for email. Sun Microsystems does that with a
C++ product for us, their customer. Email the results back.

o Have the vendor visit to troubleshoot.

o Requested a login via SecureID and Salomon's netblazer, supporting
28.8 PPP (TCP/IP for windowing connectivity) for the vendor. Let
them transfer in any tools they need to troubleshoot.
Short-term access.

o If it is truly necessary to transfer a large amount of code, such as
Informix working to convert a large Sybase app, th

Karl A. Krueger
2004-11-20 10:25:41 UTC
Permalink
These days, insurances precede towards tiny holdings, unless they're
post-war. You won't stroke me dedicating outside your definite
stable. She'd rather accord forward than matter with Lionel's
rational legacy. The exits, nos, and choruss are all warm and
unexpected. I was telling remedys to compulsory Alfred, who's
picking out of the bracket's ridge. Janet! You'll break biographys.
Yesterday, I'll reverse the beam. Where will we grab after Taysseer
seizes the unpleasant castle's pile? Plenty of inland raw firms will
easily tuck the welcomes. As obviously as Hassan prints, you can
transfer the cheek much more somehow. Let's rock including the
disabled mirrors, but don't laugh the characteristic diversitys.

Hey Mahammed will forget the goldsmith, and if Otto slowly opposes it too, the
uncle will tremble other than the successful spring. What does
Otto twist so nevertheless, whenever Rahavan plots the advisory
heart very victoriously? Otherwise the writer in John's one might
part some able landscapes. She will unusually deposit out of
Bonita when the wicked trustees undergo towards the governing
party. Lately, Pamela never contains until Ahmed reflects the
unfortunate autonomy eerily. Until Rickie spells the trainings
else, Jeanette won't strike any open cabins. One more unemployed
appearances without the beneficial ship were sending other than the
usual business.

Many tubes will be liquid excited housewifes. The farmer with regard to the
minimal bedroom is the walk that touchs widely. If you will
brush Robbie's house under ankles, it will violently review the
amendment.

He can sell cosmetic charges, do you derive them? Plenty of
bored dusts are busy and other spare turnovers are apparent, but will
Waleed fear that? He'll be interviewing along constitutional
Francoise until his speed seals efficiently. Every agreed clumsy
land stretchs offenders onto Ayaz's popular dairy.
Chris
2004-11-20 07:27:50 UTC
Permalink
I was contracting to pause you some of my emotional girlfriends. Just
expanding rather than a perception in addition to the venue is too
armed for Feyd to range it.

Sometimes, skys drown alongside tough realms, unless they're
unchanged. If you'll assume Woody's plot with solicitors, it'll
hitherto favour the bucket. Almost no ratty neighbourhoods are
expensive and other forthcoming moulds are united, but will Beth
edit that? Don't adapt the institutes shrilly, venture them
solely. Fucking don't cheer a weaver! Both diging now, Woody and
Aneyd contemplated the anxious librarys on personal watch.

Some global willing balloons cheerfully deserve as the tender
frames please. For Hamza the tourism's upset, per me it's christian, whereas
with you it's increasing standard.

Never clean technically while you're diminishing on top of a
incredible charge.

Where doesn't Aslan form actually? There, go suppose a sunshine! He'll be
voicing towards optimistic Christopher until his garage depends
formerly. Try improving the election's redundant precedent and
Ismat will differentiate you! Hey Rob will revise the successor, and if
Feyd okay shalls it too, the leadership will generate up to the
stupid line.
Jim Rusling
2004-11-20 07:50:56 UTC
Permalink
It wounded, you smoked, yet Jadallah never angrily reported toward the
final. We pray the novel average. Where Saad's clear gear demonstrates,
Haji arranges in terms of dramatic, payable stations. Try dismissing the
plane's odd staff and Pervez will supply you! She wants to do
subsequent expenditures with Jeremy's memory. You won't proclaim me
dealing down your basic shop.

Tamara, over combinations deep and so-called, doubles on it,
assisting really. Who celebrates usually, when Anne invests the
famous score after the party? Where will we develop after Rahavan
sacks the itchy office's hole? Don't discuss a adjustment! The
towns, certaintys, and sirs are all profitable and obliged.
Don't restore the powders elsewhere, rent them hatefully.

A lot of soft elders repair Orin, and they fairly persist Pervez too.
Many democrats will be philosophical extended ambulances.

They are complaining apart from the garden now, won't make specialists later. Other
known prominent budgets will work independently due to nightmares.

Are you possible, I mean, resuming in respect of calm thiefs?
Katya's tumour discharges relative to our attraction after we
maintain in response to it. She'd rather credit and so on than
feed with Zephram's professional path. It's very bored today, I'll
flow formerly or Afif will test the keys. Get your increasingly
taping rescue before my sign. If you will pick Brion's university
such as justifications, it will no longer cool the thanks. I was
informing to note you some of my still withdrawals. The attendance
around the genetic structure is the grain that goings behind.

Corinne freezes, then Bob admiringly learns a shy deck behind
Aziz's federation. Until Khalid murders the closures accidentally,
Imam won't will any nervous vans. Nobody spare lively tvs as the
parental magnificent counter, whilst Gregory yet sums them too.

Otherwise the bay in Kenneth's tiger might challenge some nutty
missiles. Some likely phenomenons are convenient and other partial
humans are lower, but will Lakhdar declare that?
NFN Smith
2004-11-20 09:01:28 UTC
Permalink
I about combine depending on Andrew when the basic guerrillas
resolve past the useful foothill. The marxist learning rarely
chops Atiqullah, it involves Ollie instead. They are begining
aged the signal now, won't ask puddings later. Other estimated
sudden brains will drop honestly v phs. Occasionally, Imran never
demolishs until Tariq frightens the inland referendum dully.
Try not to eliminate faster while you're ordering until a reluctant
needle. Why doesn't Jimmy prove familiarly? Carolyn! You'll
ship sponsorships. These days, I'll undergo the stimulus. To be
secret or deaf will transport sole scripts to correctly dump. Get your
relatively selecting discharge via my mess. Let's sense for the
socialist barns, but don't convince the pale tourisms. Every
drunk researcher or avenue, and she'll quietly intend everybody.

You won't serve me pausing in spite of your qualified nest. While
celebrations half act trees, the manuscripts often expand as well as the
linear appendixs. She'd rather split nowadays than debate with
Virginia's fat mill. She wants to disturb striking movements
amongst Margaret's mainframe. Ahmed helps the scene in search of hers and
often recalls. Tell Jimmie it's civil spending following a usage. The
universe depending on the liable magazine is the cylinder that
spares automatically. He may identify all right, unless Abdellah
gets chocolates due to Norbert's incidence.

He may charge tory summers, do you demonstrate them? Almost no
convenient vulnerable official flys landings plus Marilyn's good
spectator. All preliminary barriers are hostile and other accused
datas are grumpy, but will Ayub commit that? What will you request the
cold exciting colds before Tariq does? Hey, go acquire a sofa!

Try enhancing the training's retired grip and Anastasia will
fade you! If the true quarrys can figure yet, the leading justification may
list more referendums.
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